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For Saudi, Muslim pilgrimage is big business

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Honey Bear, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. Honey Bear

    Honey Bear Contributing Member

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    Then you have a far more concerning issue, which able bodied muslims haven't been able to hide as well as the past.


    In all my years on this beautiful planet,

    In all my time in the bedrooms of beautiful, elegant, and soft skinned women,

    I have never seen such a divisive ideology continue to manipulate the weak and have nots. We know it has caused constant internal conflict since it's inception in the 7th century - but you can now see through the cracks and into the murky, tepid souls of those claiming to be a part of this exclusive club.

    The perversion of what the Koran was intended for into what it has seen in reality is glaring and depressing. With moderates continuing to turn a blind eye to basic human rights issues, you can't help but shake your head at what's to come for those hiding hypocrisy and scheming ruthlessness behind religion. Without the much needed reform that every other major religion underwent to take it out of the dark ages, the suffering of muslims around the globe continues to grow with each passing day. And you can't help but think - do they really want it to stop?
     
  2. Hydhypedplaya

    Hydhypedplaya Member

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    Doesn't the Vatican make a lot of money as well through donations. Couldn't all that money go to solve the needs of the majority of Christian poor people? Serious question.

    This is something I found with a quick Google search:
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/how-rich-vatican-so-wealthy-it-can-stumble-across-millions-euros-just-tucked-away-1478219

    Catholic Church pulls in $850 million a week in donations just from American Christains alone. I'm sure most of that money goes towards expanding religious infrastructure. Just like a lot of the revenue from Hajj and Umrah goes towards expanding Meccas infrastructure and the mosques upkeep.

    When religion is involved people will find a way to exploit the religious for a profit in some way or another. Doesn't matter what religion so get off your high horse and hold all religions to the same standards.
     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I'm really not worried about tourism money the Vatican receives going towards extravagant shows such as this:
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Hydhypedplaya

    Hydhypedplaya Member

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    Yea I'm sure when Muslims go for Hajj and Umrah they are knowingly providing money to Saudi so they can do stuff like this and not so they can go on a spiritual journey (sarcasm)
     
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Did I suggest that? My mother went to Hajj about ten years ago. Most Muslims have a cognitive dissonance when it comes to connecting the countless human rights violations that Saudi performs and all that tourism money Saudi constantly cashes in from Mecca.

    Just because they can't do 2+2 in their head regarding the connection doesn't mean they ought to ignore it. If any of my family suggests doing any future Umrah to Mecca, I'll be blunt and tell them why they shouldn't.
     
  6. Hydhypedplaya

    Hydhypedplaya Member

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    And what do you suggest for people who still want to go but don't agree with Saudis human rights violations?
     
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Don't go. Invoke common sense morality and human empathy rather than some draconian ritual that has no moral value.

    If you believe your God is the most gracious and the most merciful, he should understand why you wouldn't want to go unless Allah is fine with his followers funding regimes that perform countless human rights violations.
     
  8. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    Pilgrimage to Mecca started before there was Muslims ,Jews ,Arab ,Saudis and such..

    Carbon print suggest Kaaba or the cube is 200,000 years old.

    Ibrahim (Abraham) and his son reconstructed the Kabbah we know today ,after Noah's Fluids and he prayed for this place in desert to flourishes


    Do you want to know how many years did this take place?

    Between Noah& Ibrahim a time gap of 10,0000 years

    Between Ibrahim & Moses 10,000 years .

    Between Moses and Jesus another 1700 years

    And between Jesus and the last prophet Mohhamed another 600 years ..,


    Add another 1400 years between the time Islam start and the time Honey Bear figured out Hajj is bad for the poor and you get the picture:)


    And if you are worried about oil or Hajj revenues ...well, donations from Muslims can do the job , Indian government for example pledged enough money to feed people of the Mecca province for decades if not centuries before there was a place called Saudi Arabia. There is documents, the people of Somalia 80 years ago , donated some of their zakat money to those in need in Arabian peninsula


    By the way ..performing Hajj is a requirement for a person who can afford it, financially or health wise . If you can't then you don't have to.


    As for Syrians refugee as if you even care, most the aid they receives covered by these Hajj and other revenues ,same things can be said for those people in needs in Africa or Asia or even Katrina's victims
     
  9. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    Most psychologist / psychiatries noticed those serial killers have one part of their brains that responsible of initiating guilt or remorse emotions shut down /impaired or blocked. The only thing they fear is punishments .

    Now which way you use , a lethal injection or in public arena beheading or you lock them in jail forever is another debates .


    As for the public , if you shot someone in the head, through his body in the ocean, you take a view pictures of his dead body and you publish it, not many would really believe you actually did, many would claim Bin Laden is now in Hawaii enjoying his retirements after he accomplished his mission .


    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execution-list-2015
     
  10. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    If you feel strongly about human rights , and you are not actually a hypocrite .then immigrate to one of these countries , that don't execute criminals or jail them or as a matter of fact if you think this is too much to ask , then at least find a state that didn't use nuclear pumps or killed hundreds of thousands in every continents or jailed 10th of their population, or a country that any cops can shoot you if he feels it's the right thing to do with no consult or attaining a 2nd opinions .



    you either do this and lead by example or just simply shut up
     
  11. Hydhypedplaya

    Hydhypedplaya Member

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    It may hold no moral value for you, but that's your subjective opinion.

    Our taxes in this country have funded much worse. Should we stop paying taxes?
     
  12. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    Once you get there, if you are not Arab you will not be allowed in the holiest places. Basically, if you are not Arab you will always be a second class Muslim. I'm not sure why anyone would choose to be a second class anything?
     
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    The catholic church does spend tons of money addressing the needs of the poor (Christian and otherwise). They fund schools, hospitals, homeless shelters, canteens, just tons of social services, plus localized deaconal aid to congregants. Yes, they have some palatial churches (and uh... palaces) but they don't spend all their money there. Did you think they just sat on all that money? Paid their priests exorbitant salaries?

    I don't disagree with you, but this is hardly the only place people do this. We buy clothes made in sweat shops, start wars in oil-rich countries, embargo countries that won't let us exploit them, do business with dictators. If you are really going to disassociate with all the evildoers, you won't be able to get out much. And if you need to stamp out exploitation and suffering before you can go on a Hajj, well, you'll never go on a Hajj.
     
  14. shastarocket

    shastarocket Contributing Member

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    I'm going to need a source on this ridiculous claim
     
  15. Honey Bear

    Honey Bear Contributing Member

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    The exploitative costs to attend are absurd. Poor muslims are constantly discriminated against despite the Koran. The muslim community needs to pressure pilgrimages to be more inclusive rather than a theme park of expensive hotels and packages that only cater to the wealthiest. Anyone who looks into the non terrorism side of modern day Islam understands how discriminatory it is. Towards women, towards the poor, towards non-muslims, towards muslims who aren't their direct neighbors etc.

    Have some shame. Stop trying to pass off refugees and victims of muslim war on the West. Take accountability and be more accommodating. That's what faith is about, not sitting in five star hotels with golden covered chocolates in Mecca. If you want to be a capitalist, be a capitalist - don't hide behind the crutches of religion. And these are the haves we're talking about, not the have nots.

    Moderates can easily pressure these institutions, but they're too quick to distance themselves from anything that doesn't suit them. It's a pick and choose religion, ripe with hypocrisy.
     
  16. percicles

    percicles Contributing Member

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    Why the Saudis so racist toward their black brothers? I remember this Saudi exchange student one time said that no way in hell could there be a black cleric in Saudi Arabia. I was kinda high so I asked what about a black Paladin?

     
  17. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    Becasue you are simply not telling the truth, adel alkalabani is one of mecca prominent imam. He is black and often jokes how he is the Obama of Mecca .

    2nd, if you threat /harras someone in SaudiA. , this is considered cyper crime and the law is so strict about it.

    3. In the same time NBA rewarded an owner with with 2 billions for being racist, there was an incident of Team manager who was a Royal Prince who mocked by saying to a Saudi/Indian journalist ..."..we real people of this place knows what's best for our team"...the next day he was banned from sport,media,interviews,,sport ownershlp, membership or public postion for the rest of his life. He was't even offered a chance to apologize and say.." In Israel we treat them like dogs BS stuff"
     
  18. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    That's pretty much how the black church in America was built.
     
  19. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    I ignored what he said assuming people already knows ..

    [YouTube]ASmd7wX5xTA[/YouTube]
     
  20. shastarocket

    shastarocket Contributing Member

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    Not trying to justify it, but closed minded bigots exist everywhere

    <iframe src="https://vine.co/v/iMlQepm1dVD/embed/simple" width="480" height="480" frameborder="0"></iframe><script src="https://platform.vine.co/static/scripts/embed.js"></script>
     

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