TOTALLY disagree. How can Messi be the best w/out winning the world cup when that is the highest standard by which the greatest players in the game are evaluated? Not just winning it but at least getting one's team to the final. CRonaldo has shown he can be elite with different teammates but in terms of club matches, Messi shows up for the big matches and Ronaldo doesn't. It was the same while CRonaldo was at United. One could argue it's because of the difference in their teams- Cronaldo(United/Madrid) and Messsi(Barca) but that would be slightly weak because it's not like United and Madrid were/are chopped liver. I'm a huge CRonaldo fan but even I would pick Messi if I were starting a team from scratch.
I can't wait for Neymar to get over to Europe. <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oLFZFUv5K10" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> What impress' me the most is his vision and quickness on his first 3 steps. I love CR7 but he isn't the creator Neymar can and will become once he simplifizes his game and gains experience in Europe.
It's team game soccer. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and question Messi due to his team (barca) and then turn around and hate on him again due to his team for Argentina. I critique fairly, I understand that winning a WC requires talent and it's not just a one man show. People like REEKO who dismiss anything against him as "bait" would probably argue that Messi has no help in Argentina but then turn around and give Messi all the credit for his success at Barca. I am not holding Argentina against Messi if I am implying that his Barca teammates have been propping him up.
I don't get this hypocrisy you are talking about. The fact that he does not play well for his national team kind of provides a basis for your argument. Maradona essentially did it on his own, great players make it happen, that's what makes them great. If they have to, they make the team better and carry it on the shoulders. Neither Messi nor CR have done that. Don't know where you are getting that Messi has "no help" on Argentina, that team has a bunch of talented players. Problem is most of these guys spend their careers playing on the club level, the national teams don't get together enough to get used to playing with one another.
I don't question/hate on him team-wise. Argentina and Barca aren't small potatoes and both teams have incredible talent. Unfortunately for Messi, Barca have a great manager while Argentina have been in managerial quicksand. Regardless, as much as it is a team game, it's still going to be held against the individual if he doesn't win for club and country much like it is in other team sports like Basketball when a player like LeBron can't win a championship despite great numbers from him and poor numbers from his teammates. It happens to every great player in team sports and unfortunately in Soccer there are two area's in which silverware needs to be one (Club and Country) and that's the way it has always been for the legends of the past and that's the way it still is.
It's not a matter of what he has accomplished, but rather how he has looked when he plays for the team. I've seen Argentina games where I would not even be able to tell who Messi was on the pitch, that's how invisible he's looked at times. I think the word "done" was the wrong term to use, they've been about equally productive for their national teams. CR7 has just 'appeared' more valuable to his squad.
That just seems wrong, both had terrible and brilliant games, none of them stands out more than the other one for their national team. Watch the last Argentinia games and you see that Messi carried them on his back without good help, while Portugal played good as a unit and Ronaldo didn't really stand out. Same with the cups. You can't really say that one is being better for his national team, although the latest performance suggest that Messi is more valuable to his team.
Well based on stats, CR has 7 goals in 10 games in 2011/12 and Messi has 7 goals in 14 games in the same time period. Take from this what you will. I don't claim to watch every game for either team, I just watch highlights if available on the internet (footytube, youtube). However I did watch a handful of qualifying games for Argentina before the last world cup, and it was well publicized that Messi was invisible on numerous occasions.
Yea he was trash before last WC, but shall I remind you that Ronaldo had a period where he didn't score for Portugal in like two years? Like I said, you can't put one above the other in that category.
It's a joke really. If you are going to hold Messi to the WC standard (which I have no problem debating about) why not Ronaldo? CR7 fans are just setting themselves up for defeat. BTW, the whole "Maradona did it on his own" thing? He had a little help from his hand
Look I don't really care (I'm not a fan of either of these two guys), it was just my opinion based on the evidence I've seen. As I've said before, neither has shown greatness on their national teams. They are both in the same boat. (But lets be honest Messi also plays on a far superior team talent wise relative to CR, the hill is obviously a little bit steeper to overcome)....however if you want to qualify as GOAT you should overcome this or at least show signs of carrying a team on your shoulder, as much as one man is able to.
Just don't know if it's possible in modern soccer to carry a team to a world cup on your back. The overall quality, individual and fitness level is just way better than in the Pelè, Maradona era. Just don't see how one guy can do that nowadays, it's a bit unfair to link the GOAT argument to WC trophies. You really think Maradona would carry that Argentinian team to a World Cup in our generation? No way.
Even if Messi did somehow "carry" an Argentina to win a WC people would STILL be saying that it was because of the players around him! He won't win the minority over (you CR7>Messi people are a minority) regardless.
Well Maradona did not have any advantages relative to the competition, he was on same playing field as others The thing is, players like Pele and Maradona don't come every generation, we'll eventually get a freak of nature that will be heads and heels above the competition, but its not Messi or CR.... no matter how badly people want to put that title on them, happened in basketball as well with MJ.
I don't know why you are stuck on the CR7 vs Messi thing, if people still question you after winning the world cup then maybe you don't deserve that credit. Nobody questions Pele or Maradona as the best of all time, you've got to overcome the stigma of just being one of the group and everyone has to notice it. There is a reason why Scottie Pippen is known as the sidekick and MJ is the GOAT. If Messi differentiates himself from his team mates then why shouldn't he get all the credit? It'll happen if he deserves it.
CR7 hasn't done anything for Portugal, simply nothing. Messi won U-20 World Cup and Gold at 2010 Olympics. It's not much but is better than what Ronaldo has done. You can't compare goal ratios for the national teams because Messi plays a different role in Argentina than he does for Barca. He is the Xavi/Iniesta of Argentina, the playmaker, the setup man. I was amazed by numbers of missed opportunities by Higuain, Kun, and all the other strikers. Like Yung-T said it will be really hard for a single player to carry his team. Marodona would not win by himself nowadays. No, I don't think Messi is greatest of all time. I'm thinking he just cracked top 5. My top 5: Marodona, Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, and Messi.
Extremely important victory for Bayern, brings us two steps closer to the league title. Dortmund with the killer schedule to finish the season.
