Let's not be SUPER homers guys. Shane, I agree..doesn't flop. Chuck on the other hand... MOST of his charges are legit. But I've seen him go down a small handful of times. Spanoulis hasn't seen enough action to warrant a judgment either way. Lucas seems to flop, but it's hard to tell cause he really could be that light comparatively.
Whoever said they just should swallow the whistles when they see a flop was right. It's punishment enough to be laying on the floor while your defender gets a wide open J or a wide open lane to the hoop. If they see what they think is a flop they should just let them play. I've always hated the charging rule anyways, some guy just steps in front of your path to the basket and you have too much momentum to avoid and it's going the other way with a foul against you? Screw that. It's only reasonable if the offensive player BULLS you over by lowering his shoulder, otherwise, it should be as physical as possible in the sense if the offensive player gets a weaker man on him, more power to him. They shouldn't call the offensive foul unless you use your shoulder/elbow. As of right now, they call that AND even if you're back is straight and the guy falls over (Ginobili on Bonzi yesterday) they give the defensive player the call. So stupid. If you're not strong enough to back down your defender without shouldering him then use finesse and go around him or pass the damn ball. If you're a lot stronger than your defender you have every right to take him into the lane and punish him down low so long as you don't use the shoulder/elbows. Conversely, if you're too weak to guard your man in the post, switch on D or get someone to help you out. Falling down is such bullsh*t. That's just my opinion because I am a PG and I drive to the hoop regularly and I HATE IT when these guys step in front of you randomly and get the call. Also because i'm strong enough to guard down in the block, I don't need to flop.
It's just my impression. If you want the ref. to call charing foul, the defensive player has to fall down, otherwise 90% of the time it wont be called. So if you RESIST to fall down, it's either defensive foul or no call. If you DONT RESIST, it's charging or blocking foul. What would you do if you're the defensive player?
In my opinion the worst offender is Reggie Evans. He flinches wildly before any contact is made, and exaggerates the effect upon contact. The one good thing about this rule is, it gives the ref the opportunity to correct a mistake. I think sometimes the refs blow the whistle, but realize immediately that they've been tricked. This way, instead of sticking with the wrong call, they can call it a flopping technical instead. There has been at least one play where I've seen the offensive player (Reggie Evans again) flop in the act of shooting, but the ref called it a non-shooting foul because he didn't want to reward the flopper. But the defender still got a foul. This would be a way to actually penalize the flopper. I think this type of flopping technical would rarely be called, except for extremely obvious cases.
How about NOT calling r****ded flopping as offensive fouls?!?!? i mean the NBA needs to start having "no calls" in some situations. if someone flops and ur not sure if it's offensive..just let it go..flopper gets punished when his man takes it to the basket. another no call situation is when the opponent leans into his defender to make contact. if playing defense is not standing straight with ur hands straight up, then what is?..moving away when someone tries to lean into u? so stupid. i can already see bunch of technical fouls next year on people who actually take a charge and ginobli is still going to get his calls.
They have to do something about the FLOP. Whether its fining players or not calling offensive fouls, something has to be done. It's cheating and it needs to be stopped.
geeze DaDakota. Sometimes I just don't think you know what you are watching, or you are a politician trying to spin the truth. Battier and Hayes don't flop. damn dude. Battier gets killed out there. Ginobili is a flopper.
if Battier ever "flops" it's because his muscles just assumed command of his body over his brain's instructions and made him flinch.
Everyone flops to some degree when they're trying to take a charge. No one gets the call if they stay standing. What's more pertinent is the outlandish, "I've been shot!" flopping that Vlade Divac helped make famous on D and Manu depends on for his scoring average. I think it's absolutely called for and needed to make flopping worth a tech or a personal foul. Even 3 point shooters (Reggie Miller origin) have started acting like they've been stabbed in midair. The worst case scenarios are when there is little or no contact to prompt the flopping. Absolutely make it a rule, but enforce it (like palming and traveling) on gross violations. Evan
what does that mean? whether you stay standing or not is not always your choice on a charge/block. hitting the ground is not a flop necessarily. You actually can be knocked to the ground. Plus, Battier gets charges/blocks in ways not everyone has the instincts for. He move back and in front of his man when they make their move. When they attempt to drive around him, he beats them to the path that they are taking by sliding back and in front...that move leaves you with little balance. The contact necessary to get a charge/block call just knocks him down 'cause he's moving back and over.
I think flopping on offense is much worse that flopping on defense. The ginobili and Dirk flail is rediculous.
Lets give the worst refs in sports more power!! YEAH that's how it should work. Why don't they penalize the refs for phantom calls and star treatment if they're really worried about the state of the game.
i have rarely seem someone get called for an offensive foul if the defender does fall on a charge.. the only other times a charge is called is if he's using the forearm to push you off of him or blatant pushing/shouldering.. but someone coming at you with momentum would be dangerous not to fall on defense. just because a defender would be able to resist falling doesn't mean it's safe to resist falling. I also agree that shane and hayes do not flop. Flopping is when there is no to little contact and the player exagerates or acts like there was ... running in front of somebody to take a charge isn't flopping (if their feet are set).. but if someone takes a swipe at the ball and gets close to hitting your face and you swing your head and grab your eye when there was no contact is flopping. or falling down when you get caught up on a scree (and not meaning those monster screens)
Nocioni is a lame offensive flopper. Remember that flopping 3pter against McGrady and the Rockets, during the closing seconds?
Just distinguish bet. an offensive foul and a flop damnit. The flopper falling and leaving his man open is enough of a penalty.
They were down four and he was desperate. Any player that wanted to win would've tried that. Also, after reading through this thread, I'm firmly in the "No Call or Blocking Foul" camp. That's all the refs really need to do to penalize floppers. This technical foul crap is unnecessary.
