I don't mind if you take charges like Hayes and Battier. But Scola and Lowry flopping are cheap gambles. You try to deceive the ref, and if you get a call you have successfully cheated, if you fail then the ref saw through your cheating. Either way, you're cheating.
ha - too funny! I understand what Dada is saying though in this thread. I hate the flopping, but it's not the players fault - it's the fans. yes - yall heard right. People complained about the scoring (and by yall I mean the entire basketball fan base) and how low it was and all that. So guess what, the refs now call every thing as a fall as a means to discourage tough defense and make it easier for players to score. People can't ask the refs to "let them play" and then whine about scoring. So ha - people got what they asked for.
Yes, hate it. Hate it on both sides of the ball. Kevin Martin the worst at it(or best looking at it another way). Scola right behind him. If the refs are willing to call it, I'm not gonna fault those guys because again, the refs are willing to call it. But this isnt new from some of our guys, perhaps only more noticeable this season?
Hayes and Battier, for the most part, take legitimate charges. So, does Lowry. The worst floppers we actually have on the defensive end of this team are Luis and KMart. Poor guys. Half of their attempts to play defense is to flop on everything while the other half is to gamble for the steal. I have seen Lowry take an occasional defensive flop but most of his stuff is inside the paint area. Most of his offensive fouls calls are legit. On the offensive side of the ball, we really do not have floppers. Lowry is not a flopper offensively. Several of those plays last night were defensive fouls that should have been called. In fact, Lowry has not gotten nearly the calls he should be getting when he drives in the paint area. He gets butchered in there. Martin initiates an awful lot of contact and he falls down on everything. You could consider some of his stuff as flops. But an awful lot of the contact he initiates are legit defensive fouls. That is the way the game has been called clear back to when I was a little kid watching Scottie Wedman and the Kansas City Kings. Your best offensive players, even back then, the Bernard Kings, the Adrian Dantleys, the Mark Aguirres...always always always got the defense to move their feet, break the principle of veritcality, and then initiate the contact into the defender who was moving. They beat the defender to a spot on the floor and initiated the contact and got to the free throw line. That is legit basketball. Martin has the skill of being able to make a move hear the whistle and in midair throw up the shot. He is very smart. The minute he hears the whistle, he chucks the ball, doesn't matter where he is on the court, he chucks it at the basket. That's good smart basketball. Because he is so good at that, he sometimes takes it overboard and stretches to initiate the contact. That is not legit and it is up to the refs to detect the difference. But make no mistake about it, Martin is a highly skilled, highly intelligent baller that puts the refs in the position to make that call in his favor, and justifiably so, many more times than not. The specific floppers I hate are: 1. The offensive players that act like they've been shot out of a cannon when there is any contact on a screen. (The Horry vid was a perfect example.) 2. Guys that fall over defensively with any sort of minor contact, that thrust their body onto the floor. (I'm thinking of Kirilenko, Boozer, Okur, and yes, our own dear Scola and KMart.)
Hi Dadakota. I think you're getting at something here. The nba needs a reform to stop players from flopping. You notice that in some games the officials don't give flopping calls. This needs to be the case for all games. Now of course, it is hard to detect flopping as some are darn good at it (our kmart for example), but how about this: No more blatant flop calls and video review of flop cases with a call AGAINST the flopper (if found to be flopping). This will show floppers that it no longer pays to flop.
The easiest way to fix this is have the league look at every game and fine each player who flops (give them a technical foul). That would work IMO.
No, Kam is right. Martin and Lowry were like this before they got here. Morey knew what players he was getting.
We wouldn't really care if we were winning. But since we are losers we'd rather see ourselves lose with dignity I guess.
I'd like to point out that Kevin Martin doesn't flop. He literally runs into his defender then tries to shoot, and for whatever reason it's always a foul whenever the offensive player runs into you. i don't like it because it ruins the flow of the game, and it also exagerrates Kevin Martin's scoring ability. he doesn't get free throws from attacking the basket. He gets them because he runs into his defender on the perimeter and is smart enough to attempt a shot.
No. Contact is one of three things. 1. A defensive foul when the defender is moving and impeding the movement of the offensive player. 2. An offensive foul when the defender is stationary and vertical and the offensive player runs into him. 3. Incidental if there is just a bump of bodies and no material change of position or advantage is gained by either player.
I miss basketball in the '90s (outside of the special rules for Michael Jordan). You had to play man-to-man or risk illegal defense calls. You had to defend the post instead of double teaming someone front and back without the ball. Contact was tolerated on the perimeter so you couldn't just automatically get to the line every time. Just because fans couldn't appreciate post play, they had to ruin basketball. God, Yao would be a monster under the old rules.
They are both good at penetrating into the teeth of the defense and getting legit foul calls. No one's arguing that. We know that. But, they also get a ton of calls in their favor when they flop or even worse they sometimes fail at an attempted flop and put pressure on their teammates to make plays in crucial possessions. Martin's go-to flop is essentially a running knee. He runs into the paint and knees the center in the body, fades and falls. That defender has not fouled him yet he will go to the line. Sorry, I'd rather have players that get to the line because they are so dominant offensively the defenders are forced to foul instead of players that need to rely on a ref's interpretation of the rules.
Not accurate. Martin's go to foul generator is because he runs into the lane and extends his arms with the ball until he makes some sort of contact on his arms and shooting area, then he releases the shot. He initiates body contact with the defender and then after feeling that contact, he can stabilize himself in midair and then tangles his arms up with the defender before releasing the shot, to get the foul called.
Yeah this team reminds me of the jazz when it comes to flopping, one of the reasons I don't like scola and martin and lowry on this team.
You remember in youth basketball leagues "that" kid who'd always embellish the contact he received...trying to play for the dramatic effect making every feat look "heroic" and like he's overcoming adversity...when he drives in and gets knocked, he'd always do that extra slide on his butt out of bounds when he hits the floor. The added in theatrics to look cool, like a "ball player" to impress the girls. Thats what Lowry reminds me off sometimes. Kevin Martin seems to make too much a focused effort to get his free throws in, taking away focus from getting actual field goal shots in. I don't know why but there seems to be a difference between the South American player flopping and the US American flopping. You give credit to Ginobili and Scola for being competitors looking for the extra edge, while US players make it look cheap.
