Not through review but at that moment. If Kevin Martin flops and is rewarded a foul, then it's a foul. Period, no review. If Kevin Martin flops and the ref feels there isn't any contact and Martin is trying to simulate a foul, the refs can then call a technical.(anyone that watches soccer probably understands the concept, though it is far from perfect)
There's enough consistency. Flops are part of the game now. Martin is getting to the line 8.8 times per game, the 3rd highest for him despite playing less minutes than he has in previous years.
True, but do you get my point that the rest of the team is now trying to emulate him, and it is failing as a strategy overall? You see Scola now doing it, you see Lowry doing it, you see Battier doing it....everyone....and they are not as good at it as Kmart is....and those are basically turnovers..... Maybe the trick is that you can only have one guy that does it, but not the entire team? Still it is sickening, and no, there is not enough consistency among refs. DD
I think everyone can agree with that. No one is in favor of flopping. The real debate is the extent to which it should be used tactically to gain an advantage.
Agreed. If it was sprinkled in, rather than blatently obvious that the players are trying that, I think it would be much more effective and palatable. DD
yea it gets boring when all kevin martin does is drive in and flop his hands up. yea its a foul but i mean, can you please just try to score the regular way instead of just getting free throws for all 20 of your points?
you mean like we do to other teams...to embarass them? I think that's going to be a problem, much like calling a shot clock violation when a team gets the rebound and is on it's way to a fast break the other way. If a player flops without much contact it usually gives the other player the advantage. On offense a flopper usually loses the ball as he does it. On defense they lose their position. Stopping play at that moment takes away the momentum from the non-flopping team and cancels the advantage they gain. I think teams would prefer to just not have the flop called and let play continue, much like the shot clock violation.
Ok, I see your point. Maybe the NBA can change the technical rule where they can call it retroactively. Such as, at the next dead ball the ref can call the tech on the player. Again, not a perfect system, but just an idea.
Again, we are relying on the refs though, I am not sure that anything will work other than just to not call it....the players will stop doing it all together if the refs stop rewarding it. I mean a lot of our flops on offense go down as missed shot attempts but they are essentially turnovers. DD
Yes I hate it And this is the reason Martin struggles in the last few minutes of the game because he is looking to flop his way to the free throw line and the refs aren't buying it.
I'm not liking the flopping either. The Rockets have become way too reliant on the refs. They need to stay on their feet. To me, the only justification for a Rocket to hit the floor is if they're trying to draw a charge in the paint from a driving player (but not from post players), or if they're diving for loose ball. And Kevin Martin is by far the most chronic flopper on the team, in front of Kyle Lowry, then Scola. I'll admit that I like to see Kevin getting his 10+ free throws a game, but I notice that almost all the calls he draws are out on the perimeter. To me, if he wants to go to the free throw line, he needs to attack the basket and seek out contact to draw the foul, not try to bait players by using (from my perspective) cheap tactics.
Rockets are losing thier identity. Jazz are supposed to be the elbow jabbing undercutting floppers. Suns are supposed to be the no defense high scoring team. Rockets are supposed to be the scrappy, bluecollar team with lots of heart that never give up. I miss those guys.
Flopping would stop if the officials would actually call fouls that are committed right. Flopping has started and become popular because the normal contact that should be called a foul has been allowed to digress to the point that the players feel the only way to get a foul call is to flop around. The other thing is we need a flopping review rule sort of like the flagrant foul rule. That is, the league can review plays after the game and assign flopping violations to players that flop for a call. There should be a short number of flopping violations that occur before a one-game suspension occurs, say for every 2 flops. That way, any player can basically get away with one flop before they face a game suspension penalty. Then the other thing that should occur is the offensive player should be called for the offensive foul if he drives to the rim and initiates contact with the defender outside the circle and the defender is vertical but does not fall over. The defender shouldn't have to fall over to get the call when they are set outside the circle and the offensive player runs into them. But what happens now is a falling down contest. Both players fall down in hopes of getting the call. If the defender doesn't fall over, then the offensive player goes sprawling over the floor in an attempt to make it look like he was fouled. So the defender feels like they have to fall over in order to possibly get the call. In my mind, it's pretty simple. The principle of verticality is something you learn in grade school basketball. It should be applied and used. I don't care if the defensive player's hands contact the offensive player. If the offensive player initiates the contact and the defender is stationary and vertical, it is an offensive foul. Doesn't matter if the defender doesn't fall over and the offensive player goes sprawling. He ran into a stationary defender who was vertical. Even if the defender is jumping. If he is jumping straight up and his arms, hands, and fingers are vertical and the offensive player runs into him and falls over, it's an offensive foul. Just call the game the way the rule book says to call it.
DD is right...it's sickening bull**** Utah Jazz style basketball. And, as much as I hate it, I can deal with the barrell into the post player standing still attempt to get a foul call. I don't think it's the way the game was meant to be played or the rules were meant to be interpreted but you can live with it when a small guy gives up his body for the chance to go to the line. I simply CAN NOT stand when a guy initiates all of the contact and then fades to the side (or falls down) the way Martin and Lowry do. Come on, you're not even man enough to take all the contact that YOU initiated! It's the basketball equivalent of a sucker punch.
