Flight Attendant says Ms Osteen caused hemorrhoidal flare up

I think people that criticize the way Lakewood teaches God's Word have never actually been to the church or bothered to learn more about everything they do. No, Joel does not preach about homosexuality or abortion or whatever other sins people like John Hagee claim will give you a ticket straight to hell. People like Hagee seem to focus on the negative aspects of the Bible while Joel looks more at the positive. But what he's doing is WORKING. He has probably turned more people on to God than any other preacher in history, and has given so many people hope for a better future. I don't see how any Christian could not appreciate that. All things are possible if you have faith (and notice I said POSSIBLE, not GUARANTEED, and if you listen Joel does not say it that way either). He has said numerous times how he knows his way is not for everybody but he doesn't feel that condemning people is the gift God gave him. He gets people in the door, and those who are interested in learning more can take advantage of the several classes, Bible studies, etc. that Lakewood offers throughout the week that I know from attending them myself can give you a more well-rounded understanding of the Bible (and yes they are free, and you don't PAY to be a member of Lakewood as someone suggested here). On Wednesday nights they have a service with guest speakers or other Lakewood pastors, including the great Marcos Witt, who aren't afraid to tell you like it is. I will admit I often find it a refreshing change from Joel's style, but I have great respect for him and what he has to say.

As for Victoria, I'm not sure about her. There's definitely enough evidence to know she was way out of line and it's unfortunate that she won't take accountability for anything. It's either out of arrogance or embarrassment. I can only hope that she knows deep down that her behavior was wrong and asks for God's forgiveness.

 

The next millionaire next door.

 

you're presenting 2 complete opposite takes on the bible, neither of which I'd say IN MY OPINION are true to the gospel.

and i do think he is a gateway to faith for some...but a faith in what? a faith in a god that will bless you with health or wealth as long as you're praying and reading your bible?...so what happens when they get on a bus on the way to a church event and end up dead in a wreck? what happens when they can't make their mortgage payment? what happens when they lose a loved one? did they just not pray hard enough? this is where prosperity gospel breaks down. and i'm sorry..but that's the message i hear from osteen...and yes, i am listening.

i think he's probably a great guy...i think he's probably as nice a guy as you could find...i think God loves him as much as he loves me and you...i think he's created in God's image and is as broken as you and me, as well...but the calling of attention to self and the prosperity stuff weirds me out.

i'm critical of the Church in America, generally...this particular movement within the church gives me the creeps in different ways from the Hagee movement...but it still creeps me out.

 

Ahh, religion. Biggest load of crap in the world, lol.

Designed to control the masses and gain money for churches. Ladies and gentlemen, I present George Carlin.

"Religion easily has the best bull**** story of all time. Think about it. Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money"

 

I do understand that there are those, myself included, who also want to hear, for lack of a better term, a "middle ground" from Hagee's message and Joel's, that is why I tried to explain how Lakewood does reach out to those people. They have something for everyone. If Joel's style does not appeal to you then that's fine and even understandable, but I think some people just need to know all the facts before they choose to talk about the church as a whole in such a hateful way. I do feel a sense of loyalty to Lakewood and a need to defend them because of how going there has affected my life, and I just think many people have the wrong idea about it. I'm sorry to hear your pessimism about the "Church in America" because IMO there are more churches out there that have good intentions than there are not.

And I'll just say again that I've never heard Joel say that if we are "praying and reading our Bible" that bad things will never happen. To say that is an exaggeration is putting it mildly. What I've taken away from what I've learned is that part of having faith is not questioning why bad things are happening but trusting that God will be with us when they do.

 

This post has nothing to do with what people are discussing, is incredibly rude, and makes you look like a child. Take advantage of your editing privileges and say something relevant.

 

I'm cool.

 

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I don't get much "control the masses" out of Jesus...and Carlin's statement is a complete misunderstanding and twisting of the faith he attempted to belittle.

 

I hope I haven't offended you...sorry if I have.

 

Vail, Colorado: isn't that the same place where the then -squeaky clean Kobe's first legal problems were? hmmm. Now another prominent figure in society faces legal problems heading to Vail.

 

Love..

 

FWIW - I agree w/ Moes...

There can be no real understanding, or communication with value, of the Gospel (which means "good news") without also communicating the bad news, or the reciprocal side -or consequence of life without Christ, or bad choices.

Similarly, most only realize what success is when they've experienced failure... And being content with what you have is a bigger blessing in the long run than gaining more stuff.


FWIW - I also understand that the portions of services, a.k.a. the "face forward" or the "image" if you will that the Osteens and Lakewood put out there for the public in media, etc., is designed to appeal to the un-churched masses.

And so long as we're griping about the world's largest "mega-churches" remember that the Vatican is supposedly wealthier than most of the world's countries... so Lakewood is small beans in the grand scheme of things.



In other words... a little of both sides of the story have to be understood when it comes to Lakewood... And anytime you put yourself in leadership in a church, you live in a glass house, on a pedestal... It's magnified when you're on TV, radio, etc... But there was definitely an understanding that with more public exposure/notoriety there would be more scrutiny.

This is why I am thankful for my role in life, and the part of Scripture that mentions God not putting more on me than I can bare. Whom He calls, He so equips... Who is faithful over little, He makes ruler over much... Whatever is planted is reaped...


To sum it up, I wish this whole scene on no one...

 

ToyCen428- for a pastor to be misrepresented, misquoted or even misunderstood is hurtful. when your church is criticized it is offensive.

There is far more opportunity for criticism when you are on TV and as visible and popular as Joel is. But a person's soul is more valuable than anything in the world and within the Christian community what you believe and who you listen to is far more important than just deciding what you like or what you are comfortable with.

Too many Christians look for a church that fits them, instead of a church that fits Jesus and His message.

I have been to Lakewood a few times when John Osteen was pastor. I never met Joel but I have heard several of his sermons on TV.

I have a friend who was on Joel's staff as a youth minister who just left the church. I have met the praise leader and spent some time with her. I know many people who attend Lakewood and I have looked through Joel's books. I know someone very well who works at the church currently.

You said you wouldn't mind finding some middle ground, I encourage you to do that,
I really think you should consider some of the reasons other pastors find the message at Lakewood to be flawed and dangerous, I believe that sincerely and if you email me I will explain why.

 

I'm kind of split on the issue. It's obvious that Victoria was out of line. It's also patently obvious that there are no grounds for a civil lawsuit. My wife works facing the public in a government office and people shout at her all the time. So? Your job sucks - if you don't like it, quit. I know plenty of people standing in line who would love to work as a flight attendant - my wife, for one.

On what seems to be the other issue: Lakewood Church and Joel Osteen:
1. I don't believe that a man of the cloth should ever be wealthy.
2. I don't believe that they should be travelling in first class.
3. I don't believe that the huge "JOEL OSTEEN MINISTRIES!!!!" sign on the outside of Compaq Center is right. As a matter of fact, it seems horribly wrong to me.

However, his message are motivating and good to listen to. Is Lakewood Church the "easy listening" channel? Maybe. He's obviously independently wealthy because of book sales. Does he even get a salary from the church? I don't know. I know I would feel wrong if I was in his position and I was taking a salary.

The Bible says that "by their fruit you will know them." That's why incidents like this concern me.

 

Evidently, Three 1st class passengers are backing up Victoria Osteen.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_re_us/osteen_s_wife_lawsuit

HOUSTON - Three airline passengers testified Wednesday they never saw or heard any indication that the wife of megachurch evangelist Joel Osteen assaulted a flight attendant in 2005.

Continental Airlines flight attendant Sharon Brown claims in her lawsuit that Victoria Osteen yelled at her, threw her against a bathroom door and elbowed her when a spill on the armrest of her first-class seat wasn't quickly cleaned up. Brown claims she suffered physical and psychological injuries.

However, three first-class passengers on the plane testified Wednesday that they never saw or heard anything to indicate that Victoria Osteen assaulted Brown before the start of the flight from Houston to Vail, Colo.

"There wasn't anything that occurred that she could be suing over," said Laura Knoppe, who was sitting in the first row of first-class seats, closest to where Brown said the attack took place.

Knoppe, who was called by Victoria Osteen's attorney, Rusty Hardin, said she never heard Osteen yelling or screaming.

Another passenger, Barbara Shedden, who had been called by Brown's attorney, described the interaction between Brown and Victoria Osteen as "just a power of the wills. It was very authoritative on both parts."

Shedden said Victoria Osteen was out of line by standing in the aisle while she waited for the spill to be cleaned up, but testified she doubted an attack took place.

A third passenger, James Steele, said he never heard any yelling or sounds of a physical altercation.

Earlier Wednesday, Brown's attorney, Reginald McKamie, rested his case.

Brown is asking for an apology and 10 percent of Victoria Osteen's net worth. Osteen's lawyers would not discuss her finances, so it was unclear how much 10 percent would be.

The Osteens paid a $3,000 fine the Federal Aviation Administration levied against Victoria Osteen for interfering with a crew member but testified they did that to put the incident behind them.

They are co-pastors of Houston's Lakewood Church, which draws about 42,000 people each week. His weekly television address is broadcast internationally and his books are sold around the globe.

 

Should have called Jackie Childs...

btw, Also on the front page was the Texans Cheerleader calendar shoot..Catie is one hot mama...Towards the end of the video, she's kind of dancing and her jugs move real nice..they have to be real...