1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Flat Tax Discussion

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Major, Jun 6, 2009.

Tags:
  1. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,688
    Likes Received:
    16,224
    Simple math. The GDP is $13.8 trillion. Even if you tax every single dollar of that at 18%, you get $2.48 trillion, which is about what we bring in now. But once you start giving people a $30k deduction (and recognize that we don't tax every dollar of GDP), then you end up with a huge shortage.

    I'd love to see an actual mathematically sound argument suggesting otherwise, since you're accusing me of making the assumptions..
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. real_egal

    real_egal Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Messages:
    4,430
    Likes Received:
    247
    My suggested 18% is by no means scientifically proven, just some random number I pulled. The main idea is to keep things simple, the simpler the system is, the less is the chance of corruption or loopholes. What if we decide the flat rate at 22%, and the low exemption base is set at 25,000? Will that generate enough revenue?

    With 22% of total tax rate, most of us are still paying a lot less than we currently are, while the government not only saves on IRS budget dramatically, but also saves on all levels of legislation for tax policy debating. Everyone pays less or equal tax.
     
  3. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    Use point of sale cards like the ones they use now for food stamps and WIC. It is essentially a stored value card that exempts the appropriate amount of tax until the consumer has hit their exemption limit. The infrastructure is already in place.
     
  4. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    It would certainly change our system some, but I would argue that our system needs some changing. The people who are already consuming will continue doing so as their income is going to increase drastically once the income tax goes away. The rich and even the well-to-do will continue spending much like they do now. The middle class and lower will change their habits some, to be sure. They will buy more used goods, which would be exempt from a consumption tax (they have already been "consumed"), they will look for products that will last rather than disposables when making new purchases, and they will look for ways to minimize their taxed spending.

    There will be plenty of new jobs in the untaxed market of used goods. People will need to find, refurbish, and market these products, which will create a drastic expansion in the "resale shop" business, most of which will be small businesses with very low barriers to entry. This will also create jobs in the big companies as they create buy back policies so that they can refurbish and sell older products tax-free.

    The benefits of a consumption tax would be far reaching and would affect even areas that aren't the primary reason for a consumption tax (like reducing landfill waste). The most significant change would be encouraging people to save more, which could eventually even reduce or eliminate the need for Social Security.
     
  5. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    11,917
    Likes Received:
    8,030
    it apples and oranges

    GDP does not = taxable income
     
  6. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    11,917
    Likes Received:
    8,030
    you're assuming that GDP = taxable income; but they're not the same.

    wrong assumption
     
  7. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,426
    Likes Received:
    9,324
    here's a description of Chrysler's volunteer spirit.
     
  8. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,688
    Likes Received:
    16,224
    Actually, I didn't. That's the upper end - in other words, the best case scenario. If you bothered to read or quote the rest of what I wrote, I pointed out that real taxable income will be less than GDP:


    But once you start giving people a $30k deduction (and recognize that we don't tax every dollar of GDP), then you end up with a huge shortage.


    I also notice you still haven't provided any math or analytical backing for your position.
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,688
    Likes Received:
    16,224
    Two problems here:

    1. None of that has anything to do with bondholder rights in a bankruptcy proceeding.

    2. As it stands right now (pending whether the Supreme Court decides to hear the case), the case has been decided by a federal court of appeals that the gov't did nothing illegal.

    And let's be clear - that article you cited is a blog from a biased source, as indicated by the last sentence of his article:


    Justice Ginsurg's gatekeeper function would appear to indicate that the Indiana pension funds will see not see justice served.
     
  10. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    11,917
    Likes Received:
    8,030
    what is your basis of that, another assumption ?
     
  11. lpbman

    lpbman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2001
    Messages:
    4,240
    Likes Received:
    816
    holy crap

    lol
     
  12. blahblehblah

    blahblehblah Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    4,689
    Likes Received:
    3,832
    Your posts are "much adoo about nothing."
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,688
    Likes Received:
    16,224
    Economics.
     
  14. Master Baiter

    Master Baiter Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    9,608
    Likes Received:
    1,376
    I love the idea of a consumption tax. It would be so easy and I think would promote savings which our system does not currently do. Basically if you want to relax your tax burden, don't buy ****.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now