First they came for the Jews, then the Garlic Noses

You forgot Westboro. They even hate blacks over there.

 

Stop getting hung up on the comparison. If Bush attended Westboro Baptist Church and then made public statements saying he personally had no problem with gay people would that explain away his membership? NO.

2) I think I've already said I don't believe Obama holds to the ideals of either of these men.

3) Sure they do. That's politics. The reason it's irritating with regards to Obama Only Fans is they constantly spout off about how he is "above politics" and would NEVER resort to any of this stuff.

It also cracks me up that someone in this thread mocked Republicans for their "surrogates" and mentioned how democrats don't do that attacking through surrogates stuff.

ROFL. I guess someone isn't paying attention to the primaries.

 

I think this is the fifth time you've changed your argument now.

 

How is that a change in an argument? You are making this stuff up. My argument with regards to why his words don't explain away his association hasn't change.

My argument for why it irritates me that he's just like every other politician is something totally different. Should I start a new thread for every idea being discussed?

 

Well, if you're gay, it's pretty much either voting for someone who's linkedwith a homophobe vs. voting for well, a group of homophobes...

HMM

 

Please show me where Obama supporters in this thread have "spouted off about how he is "above politics" and would NEVER resort to any of this stuff."

Your argument is flawed unless you can find me a single person - just one - who can maintain your required level of dissociation from everyone who says inflammatory statements. Words don't count.

Example: McCain needs to attend an islamic church to prove that he truly does not subscribe to his "spiritual leaders" ideology that america is around to wage war on muslims.

 

To your first point: Are you saying that isn't the case? Obama supporters don't say that he is above the old style of Washington politics?

What is my required level? I've never said anything about dissociating with anyone who made inflammatory statements. I said, quite specifically, that your pastor is far different from friends, co-workers, family members, etc.

To your last example, I don't see the relevance of it, but I've already criticized McCain for his association with the pastor calling for the destruction of Islam. I believe I called him a snake. Just like with Obama, I don't believe he holds to that man's ideals. I think he sought an endorsement from him due to political expediency and ignored the man's rhetoric.

 

Yes it does, IF HE SUPPORTS GAY RIGHTS LEGISLATION WHICH GIVES GAY COUPLES THE SAME RIGHTS AS MARRIED COUPLES.

Well, does he? He's had 8 years in office. Do gays have equal rights?

 

Yes, if he actually tried to make a gay rights bill happen that would matter. But is that words? That to me is actions.

 

Bush champions gay rights now?

 

What? LOL

When did I say anything about Bush working for gay rights?

 

Islam?

 

1. INaction is sometimes worse than action.
2. You usually choose the church based upon the minister.
3. LOL, yeah it would be much more logical for his opponents to pick and choose his friends that won't hurt his candidacy.

 

You made a comparison between Bush waging the Iraq war and Obama sitting in services.

I said that was a crap comparison. Bush's war was ACTION, Obama's sitting in a church is NOT ACTION.

So you changed the comparison, trying to prove your point: so if Bush attended X church but said Y, would that explain away the views of that church?

I said, yes it would, if he publicly supported Y (gay rights legislation).

Has Bush done that? No. Has Obama? Yes.

Bush never has, never will, never claimed he was going to beforehand. To spell it out for you: that was a rhetorical device pointing out that your comparisons between Bush and Obama are still ludicrous, and do nothing to prove the points you're trying to make.

 

Then why go?

 

How is it not? I go to church every Sunday (almost) to hear the message. I don't go so that I can sit still and be oblivious to my surroundings. Me being there is an action. Going to church is an act. Just like going to Westboro Baptist Church is an act. Going to a church that preaches a certain set of ideals leaves open only two possibilities; 1) You agree the message being preached or 2) you have a reason to be there other than the message, i.e. political expediency.

My comparisons don't matter to you for a few reasons.

1) You support Obama
2) You aren't taking them at face value

 

1. And exactly how do you know Obama DIDN'T talk to the guy about it? I think you'll find that plenty of homophobic people stay homophobic no matter how much convincing of them people try to do. Once again, that doesn't mean the guy didn't have valuable things to say besides stuff about gay people (gee, what's an example of that... maybe the ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS A WHOLE!?).
2. Where I'm from, we went to whatever Catholic church was closest to home.

 

Hmmm... perhaps because the guy might've had valuable things to say besides stuff about gay people (gee, what's an example of that... maybe the ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS A WHOLE!?).

 

1. No I don't. I'm on the fence between McCain and Obama, as I have said many, many times in other threads. I'm simply against idiotic comparisons that claim guilt by association.
Why don't you check out this post of mine from the McCain spiritual advisor thread (very short):
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=3536856&postcount=21
...oh no! I guess that must mean I "support McCain!"

2. You implied from the beginning that associating with a pastor for a long time must mean that you're guilty of all his views on significant issue until proven innocent, even if you've said all along that you disagree with him on one of them. I think that's dumb. The end.

 

Because Obama himself never said he raised this issue in front of Wright. So I guess it is not right for us to think otherwise.

In addition to sticking around Wright for 20 years, he also brought his kids to listen to Wright. He put Wright on his campaign after he admittedly knew about Wright's controversy when his campaign started. These are the ACTIONS he took.

Back to the Meeks problem, I don't think it is a big deal. He is just another guy used by Obama for political expediency. His association with Obama is nowhere as strong as Wright with Obama. I don't see any point of dwelling on him.