1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

  2. ROCKETS GAMEDAY
    Can the Rockets get immediate revenge on Kevin Durant, Devin Booker and the Suns tonight in Phoenix? Join Clutch at 7:45pm CT for pregame as we watch the game live!

    LIVE! Rockets vs. Suns

First Pizza Hut, Now Twinkies maker Hostess laying off people

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by BetterThanEver, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. body slam

    body slam Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Its a bad situation, but I have to agree with the they should be happy to have a job group.
     
  2. DimeDropper

    DimeDropper Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    25
    Bush White House Economist Glenn Hubbard explained the wave of business bankruptcies during 2007/2008 as "creative destruction." Did you trailer-trash have anything to say about that back then?
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,668
    Likes Received:
    18,886
    Would you want 25% interest in a company that was $812 million dollars in debt and under bankruptcy in exchange for severe pay and benefit cuts?

    I wouldn't.

    Fact is, sales of Twinkies and Wonder Bread has been in decline for a long time as people decide to eat healthier food. The unions didn't kill Hostess, cultural evolution did.

    Hostess died because the free market lives. It's ironic seeing supposed Republican "Free Market" advocates bemoan the loss of a company that was no longer competitive while they railed against saving GM.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    28,028
    Likes Received:
    13,046
    That made me chuckle. Hey, we're bankrupt... do you want a piece of the company?
     
  5. DimeDropper

    DimeDropper Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    25
    and it counts! repped.
     
  6. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    20,464
    Likes Received:
    488
  7. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    28,028
    Likes Received:
    13,046
  8. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,374
    Likes Received:
    15,796
    Bankruptcy is fairly common (the airlines do it on a regular basis), but liquidation is pretty much the end of it - its what you do when you're done trying to come back from it. That said, someone will likely by those production facilities and end up hiring most of those workers back - though on totally different terms, obviously.
     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,252
    Likes Received:
    40,980
    Totally agree. Let's face it Hostess was a bad company with a marketing strategy and products that hadn't changed since the 1950's. Even without the unions Hostess was already in trouble for years.

    Also for those bashing unions altogether consider that there were two large unions battling with Hostess management. One of them the Teamsters agreed to the terms while the bakers didn't Hostess needs both to operate. This is a case of one union making a bad decision, which happens, this isn't a case that unions are out to destroy business.

    Companies fail and they get bailed out, blame Obama for not letting the market run its course. A company fails and Obama get's blamed for letting the market run its course.
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,668
    Likes Received:
    18,886
    Yeah, and let's think about the comparison further. GM/Chrysler - creates millions of jobs across America. GM fails, and we all feel the reverberations.

    But god forbid no more Twinkies. What will happen to America? What will we eat? What will happen to all those endocrinologists?

    The travesty. So sad.
     
  11. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    20,464
    Likes Received:
    488
    No I can't. Can you? What's your point? Mine is that BR is not necessarily the end... as others are also pointing out... or did you even notice?
     
  12. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    84,107
    Likes Received:
    82,138
    giddy, do you not understand what "liquidation" is?
     
  13. Classic

    Classic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,101
    Likes Received:
    608
    So in otherwords, you support 'too big to fail' rhetoric. Thanks for the clarification.
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,668
    Likes Received:
    18,886
    I support effin common sense.
     
  15. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,668
    Likes Received:
    18,886
    Yeah? You should have bought blockbuster stock when it was cheap eh?
     
  16. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    312
    Shows you have no real understanding of a reorganization via Chapter 11 and DIP financing. There is a reason why unions have taken an ownership stake in a bankrupt entity before.

    Also, Major suggested that such an offer should have been tried. I simply pointed out that it was tried, in addition to other offers that did not offer an ownership stake.
     
  17. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    20,464
    Likes Received:
    488
    Of course I do. Do you understand that liquidation was possibly avoidable?

    From the OP: "Hostess says it will be forced to liquidate and lay off most employees if workers mount a widespread strike."

    The workers seems to not like the risk of ownership; they just wanted the salary and the benefits.

    YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT....
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,668
    Likes Received:
    18,886
    Unions take ownership stake in companies that have a future. They are not stupid rubes and blindly take equity in exchange for pay cuts in companies like say Blockbuster, Worldcomm, or the maker of Twinkies & Wonderbread.

    Duh.
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,374
    Likes Received:
    15,796
    That just depends on the individual unions' view of their restructuring plans and whether they felt the cuts in wages/benefits and the elimination of debt could make the company successful and valuable - and how much stake they were being given. The Teamsters, for example, accepted a contract with an 8% ownership stake in Hostess. Obviously the Bakers didn't put a lot of value in whatever stake they were offered.

    It probably didn't help the unions viewpoint seeing that the execs were all giving themselves raises right before declaring bankruptcy, though. That sounds like a company trying to cash out rather than fix things.
     
  20. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    312
    Blockbuster is a going concern with a focus on its online rental operations. So...it has a future. Worldcom was involved in cooking the books and were largely shut down by the regulators.

    Neither of these examples are remotely comparable to the situation at hand.
     

Share This Page