JVG is a terrific coach who isn't concerned about getting into the first round, but winning a championship, and he wants his players not just be 'men' on the basketball court, but also 'real men' off the court. The things many don't like JVG about may probably have made a difference to the number of wins this year, but were never going to be the difference that gets the Rockets over the line from playoff to championship. MJ-Alston trade is positive - MJ is great competitor and better shooter, but our offence stagnated with him overdribbling last year and wanting to be the man. He's great for Toronto situation, with a set-up shooter in MPeterson and two PFs, but not Rockets who needs a real PG and already has TMac (who needs the ball) and Yao (who we should start the offence with) and not MJ dribbling away the first 12 sec. Playing RyBo - Every team needs someone like RyBo as tenth man to keep all players honest. Starting JHo over SS - I think role will reverse next year, but JHo deserves start as SS was lost on O and D in the first 40-50 games, and never 'earned' a starter spot. SS needs to mature and be disciplined - late for practice twice - I think JVG did a great job of doing that, yet protecting SS all the time by reiterating SS's a great guy and there's been no attitude problems etc. JVG protected SS while most on this site wanted SS traded. But has SS looked much certain on court and determined in the last 5-10 games!!! On the aside, JVG handled Stevie Franchise better than Rudy and Orlando, but disciplined him and put him in his place when necessary (Superbowl issue). A coach needs to do that. Look at Seattle after they replaced disciplinarian Nate McMillan with soft Bob Weiss! Playing David Wesley - who else have we got? BTW, people dig Head now but he wasn't even expected to log heavy minutes as a rookie taken last in the first round. Head's done well when all is considered. Not getting more athletic players - how do you know we didn't try? Who wants to trade young athletic players for old unathletic ones that we have? This will take some time, but we have expiring contracts kicking in and have accumulated good trade exceptions. Losing to Dallas/Phoenix and/or not adjusting to others game plans - Can't defend JVG fully on this one, but reality is, Houston's got the players they've got and they're more likely to have success by playing their own games. You may win one or two games playing like Phoenix, but you're not going to win a deep playoff series playing someone else's game (esp. when you don't have the players to play those games). You don't see the Spurs trying to play like Phoenix, or Detroit trying to play like Denver, and Phoenix lost to the Spurs in the West Conf Finals last year when they slowed down to play a post game using Amare (ie played Spurs game as opposed to their own). Chastising Rockets players to the media - I thought that was very needed. You can't hold the players hands every night and cuddle them, and just be a 'motivator' ... the players need to be self-motivated and disciplined when necessary. Don't forget JVG also often beats himself up to the press with comments like he did not adjust game plans correctly, the onus is on the coach to do this and that and he didn't do it well etc. I think he's been fair about himself and the team, and rightly never gives excuses (unlike other coaches who would say 'well we tried hard tonight but we just had too many injuries'). Without all that, do you think the Rockets could have come back against Minnesota and Indianna without TMac? A key thing is our players ALL supports the coach even when he's on them, because the players knew they were at fault and the coach has been fair. You don't even get that 1/5 of that in New York with the supposed 'best coach' in Larry Brown. How many Rockets players have said JVG is the best coah they've ever had? Even Jon Barry did not have a bad word about JVG despite being cut, that's says something about the coach. I think one great thing about the Houston organisation is that there is steady, consistent top-down leadership through good and bad times. From owner, to GM to coach, most stay around. Sure, Larry Brown could (until this year) turn a club around faster than anyone, but has he left the organisation in the right way (lucky Detroit landed Flip)? Phil is the winningest, but is he as respected now with all the crap mind games he plays? George Karl flames out every few years with a team. Who else? At least JVG is respected by everybody he coaches as being fair, honest, straight, a great preparer and coach. Overall, JVG's style may not bring instant championships, but he moulds the players into 'man' who will have a great chance in the future to win championships. Who can argue that TMac is not now a tougher and more determined player and man now than he was in Orlando (TMac never takes any game off now ... yet VCarter still takes games off or fakes injury when his having an off night and NJ is out of the game)? Has not Yao now brought a fierce streak to his play and become more unstoppable but changing his game from mid-range shots to getting deeper post positions? Is SS now not lookomg like he's playing every possession hard (and not just making spectacular plays but not doing the hard work like the start of the season)? Is not Alston become the 8-assists guard Houston needs (but man he needs to shoot better)? You can't judge everybody by how they play now. Eg Brunson will not put up the numbers, but he is dependable for minutes in the intense slowed down 4th quarter games during playoffs, as well as being a good locker-room presence. Bogans has been great. Head needs to play because the 2 is our weakest position and if Wesley is down during playoffs and Head has not had game time, we're done. I do hope to see Chuck Hayes play more, but JVG correctly pointed out that as soon as Chuck secured his contract (after two 10-days), his running back on defense and energy levels dropped. Chuck needs to learn that he can't stop working in the NBA and JVG needed to teach him a lesson. Chuck will be important 2nd fwd off bench for us in coming years I believe. So for all of us, I hope JVG is not judged purely on what the team did last year or on stretches of three to five games, but on whether we're buidling the right pieces for a consistent championship team in the next 3-5 years. I think the answer is yes. We have TMac (hopefully healthy) and Yao both of who now plays great on both ends. A solid PG tandem in Alston and Sura, with Brunson good as third fiddle. We'll need to get better at the two, but that's usually the easiest position to fill. We need a better defensive and rebounding PF, someone bulkier to play the power players that SS/JH finds difficult to handle, but that should be achievable at the right price (remember the MLE and players coming off contract). I think fans should be v. optimistic about where the Rockets are heading in the next few years and JVG has created the right disciplined hard working defensive oriented team culture that may not be as flashy in the regular season but it built for the playoffs.
OOOOH! God forbid I step on the boss' toes. I learned my lesson back in 1998. My apologies. Thanks for letting me now of my clown tendencies. Can't wait to let the two kids know that God O' Clutch figured me out and has ordained me and we no longer have to spend money on those evil beings for their birthday parties. You make my life up here in Yankee land so much better from so far away. You make excellent points, sir, as always. He hasn't done that good of a job with the roster. But he has done a lot of correct things, if I may so my humble self. I would just like a little more perspective during the losses other than the usual "he got outcoached" or "he didn't dunk the ball with two hands for Yao" comments. Again, with my humblest apologies, I didn't refer to you in my rants. I addressed the other two or three minions who along with the other population get me a little angry. I do posts during wins and losses, sir. Please check the crystal ball again. And if I may be so bold as to say you are incorrect about me not caring about Houston? I do have family there. And 30 years of friendships. I do believe I also posted a glowing review of Houston after Hurricane Katrina. I was so proud of the city that I "dont' care for." If you don't mind, please allow me to correct thee. Don't be angry with me, O' Lord. I do love thee since '97.
Indeed, he is a good coach, that's why he's one of the highest paid coaches in the NBA, but is he the best bang per buck we can get? Most agree w/ the MJ/Alston trade. It's not just playing RyBo, JHo, and DW. It's HOW they're played: Putting in Rybo when offense is seriously lacking, and having DW doing single coverage on the likes of Kobe are very questionable decisions. Apparently JVG does. I completely agree. Teams must do what they're good at esp. in the post season, but even in those instances they still make more adjustments than JVG did. A good example would be Phoenix vs. SA last year in the playoffs. ...but our biggest fear is that he's not going to bring ANY championships. See, that's where the disgreement starts. I think many of our players would have improved much more under a better-fitting coach. It's hard to say that TMac, Yao, SS, and company are improving because of JVG--especially when it seems like JVG doesn't use the full potential of his players. I feel the basis of the "Fire JVG" thread isn't whether or not he's a good coach, b/c obviously he is. He's a solid, hard-working, well-respected, highly-paid coach that all players seem to like. Whether or not JVG's dogmatic approach, stagnant offense, and rigid coaching fits the talent and needs of his players, is not only the cornerstone of this on-going debate but also the pivotal segue to Houston's next championship.
Umm..I posted the last time we won. In fact I think I brought the thread back up. I am not hiding anywhere buddy. In fact it is you and your fellow Gundy lovers who are a little too sensitive about this thread. What is up with the Gundy lovers wanting this thread locked? Last time I checked this was a forum for debate. And I can understand some people thinking Gundy is a good coach. I personally don't think he is a "bad" coach. But definitely below average. But some of you make him out to be the second coming of Red Aureback or Phil Jackson. He has not done much after leading the Knicks to the Finals in a strike-shortened season. When he retires (and I hope that is sooner then later) he wont be remembered for much more then takin a ride on Zo's leg.
Putting together the oldest team in the NBA (as we had last year and most of this), isn't much of a 3-5 year plan. We were way too old and slow.
The facts are we have gotten younger it does not happen overnight. Look at the core guys who have contracts past next year only Sura and Howard look past their prime
I'm not one to post much in these threads, but this post from clutch illustrates some of the more unexamined but pervasive complaints about JVG this year. In fact I think the post summarizes them really well, aside from the comments about ALmu and his ALLEDGE hatred of Houston & propensity to be a clown etc. Now I would agree that JVG isnt exactly an offensive coaching genius by any means, but its always bothered me when people complain about the rockets horrible offense being unimaginitive, too rigid, too system, too whatever to be any good. Just curious was our offense too "rigid, unimaginitive" etc last year, when we avged for the better part of the year around 98 points a game? Would our offense likely resemble last years offense w/out all the injuries and uncertainties we've had this year? And if it did, would there still b a problem w/it? Just as curious is this boards mania with JVG supposed obsession with playing Ryan Bowen. The facts show that Ryan Bowen hasnt had some crucially destructive impact or even much of a role in games the past 3 months. Lets examine this FACT: In March hes played in 4 of 5 games getting a WHOPPING 1 min in each game. In FeB hes played in 11 of 13 games getting avg a WHOPPING 7 min... take out the big minutes he played in the 3 blow out losses, and hes avg a WHOPPING 5min! From jan 20 to New Year, Bowen played only 4 of 7 games avg ALMOST ALMOST 2 mins a game totalling a whopping 7 minutes! For the year Bowens avg 10 min a game... and these are inflated due to an unjury ridden Dec, where he avg 19min a game. Just note that B.nachbar who everyone complained was being ingnored, benched underutilized and punished by JVG avg 11.5 min and 13min game when he was here. From these numbers it sure does seem like JVG is OBSESSIVELY using BOWEN our only real true backup foward. I guess I'm one of the people who thinks JVG was just honestly answering the question and telling it like it is. IMO its just a question of how sensitive you are and how much you are going to infer from someones comment. I didnt take it (his rant) as passing blame to the players, but rather just explaining the problem. Reason why I say this is simple... JVG wasnt talking about assigning blame, hes simply explaining why we lost. If the question was of whos fault it was, Im sure he would as per usual take as much if not more fault than the players. In fact that is one of his traits that many pplfind annoying as hell. Furthermore it doesnt seem like any of the players took it as scapegoating them either as they all seem to agree with his comments. The question of roster is a simple one. Was the roster at the start of season b4 the injuries a horrible roster, with the signing of swift, andersen, barry, and trade for alston. Did everyone decry the foolishness of these moves, how it would most likely lead us to the lottery? For those who thought not resigning padgett was terrible and that our roster was terrible, etc. I applaud your wisdom and are proven correct. You have a very valid criticism of CD and JVG this season. However to those are only now bashing thse moves with the benefit of hindsightm that just ridiculous. For the record I like most thought our roster was great at the beggining of the year... i liked james but thought alston was a good fit, I like padgett but didnt think we would need him much with/ Swift blossoming as our new 4 & t-mac, alston, barry, sura, anderson, wesley providing the wing shooting. OOoo i was wrong lol. Agree totally with the first part... and completely understand the second part about him still going nuts about effort, but i dsagree that he goes postal/blames our players about quickness or talent, effort yes talent no. But thats who JVG is, hes going to demand those things (effort, intensity) incessantly and at all times. If asked publicly what the problem was, hes going to say effort/intensity if that was the fault... thats JVG some ppl like it, some dont. And with regards to who brought them in and is coaching them... Precisely. He borught them in, so hes gonna demand that, he coaches them so hes gonna demand it and call them out when he doesnt get the effort... Frankly its the NBA effort isnt always there every night regardless of the coach, anyone disputing this watch college and compare. JVG's solution to this is to harp about it, whether it is a wise one or a flawed one, whether the team tunes him out or listens, i dont know and remains to be seen. errr.. i have no clue about this... so PASS ! posted by: not J
What takes him so long to realize RanBo sucks when the majority of a freaking BBS knows from the start?
HUH?? how did you derive that from my post? what does that question have to do with the post you quoted me? O and Please explain to me how JVG takes "so long to realize RanBO sucks"? posted by: not J
His minutes are down by your account, thus my question. I consider 5 mpg for him too many, other than in blowouts. edit, plus it's not very useful just looking at his mpg, since he's been in and out of the rotation. Look here for what people were talking about.
Rybo isn't a rotation player that deserves to play every game. He's a situational player. As for injuries giving Rybo playing time, I believe we can get players better than him to fill up the gaps if we tried. If one needs a no talent hack to boost efforts on your team, at the cost of performance, there's a blind spot in strategy. The game isn't decided by the times a guy flails his arm, but by the times a ball goes in the hoop, something Rybo sucks at. We lost games because we couldn't shoot and Rybo isn't the solution, but a substraction compounding our shooting woes.
What are you talking about not uselful?? Can you read? If you can you would notice that I did a breakdown of his minutes not just the avg... AND you would also noticed that your link showed precisely what I posted! Its a breakdown on the mins he played per month and it showed what your link showed... the fact that he didnt/hasnt played in many if any meaningful moments for the past year and since last year! ANother fact, since dec 31 excluding blowouts Bowen has played more than 5 minutes or more, in a WHOPPING 5 games! Thats 5 out of 34 games! Thats what your link shows.
Rybo's playing time, or lack of it, does not bother me at all. What really bugs me are the people who were dumped in favor of keeping this talentless, frantic arm waver (Barry, Spoon's contract, Baker's contract). Couldn't we have given Stephen Graham a little more time to show what he could do? No, Rybo was more important. Bah.
It is a shame Mr. Van Gundy has never won a championship, and never "consistently" been in the position to win a championship.
