My point is more that there needs to be a happy middle. Players and coaches are responsible for wins and losses. This black and white ideal is just silly. Had JVG had a full complement of players I think most would agree we would be in the top half of West, it didn't work out that way but this team hasn't given up and has fought to get back to respectability. The Rockets look to be turning the corner and JVG has to get some credit for that esp. considering how horrid the majority of the first half of the season was.
So, beating the Clippers raises doubts because we don't know how good they are. Haven't really beaten anybody lately. Not that winning breeds confidence, but we will go with that theory. Fine. But if we know how good Detroit is or the Spurs or the Mavs and we LOSE by the same margin, this thread lights up like the Rockefeller Xmas Tree? Be damned the injuries and all that, right? Oh! Ok. My bad. Fire the guy.
Must we go over this again? Injuries happen. How a team deals with is also a coach's responsibility. And insisting on stuffing the roster with injure-prone players don't really help.
Let's visit it again, because you apparently came to the wrong conclusion previously. Once you have as many injured, important players as we had? Nonsense. No coach could have won at that point. Ha can try to develop rookies and scrubs and bring in more role players...byt win? You act like injuries = injuries. To not assess who those injuries are to is ludicrous. MVPs of the team: We all know about T-Mac's back...should JVG trade him away? Yao is not injury prone and there was NO way to predict Yao's toe Obviously those were the 2 most damaging injuries to this team's success: JVG responsibility factor => 0.00% Rafer is important...how many broken bones has he had since entering the NBA? JVG responsibility factor => 0.00% Arguably, by looking at the success of this team since the return of TMac, Yao and Rafer... other injuries are very successfully managed by JVG.
To further highlight Cohen's point, Excluding TMac, Yao and Rafer...how much better would our record be if we had a healthy DAndersen, Sura, Stromile and Jon Barry during the stretch that TMac and Yao were out? So you are suggesting a starting lineup of Deke, Bowan, Wesley, Head and JHoward would have been playing 500 ball? Dude, you can't blame JVG for this. $h1t happens.
Injuries are injuries--it's a tautology. I'm not saying Rockets would've played .500 ball w/ TMac and/or Yao out (tho I do think it is possible). But I dare anyone shameless enough to say, there is no way we could've done better given our injury situation. There are a lot of coaches out there who would have done much better given JVG's situation. Popovich, AJohnson, Adelman, LBrown, and don't for get Carisle who's team is playing .500 ball w/ O'Neal & Tinsley nowhere in sight.
Stop highlighting. It's silly. If it's a valid point, everyone will read it. If JVG were dealt those players, I wouldn't have blamed him as much. But since he picked those players himself, he automatically assumes more responsibilities. True taht "$hit happens." But the reason why the phrase holds water, is b/c it forces people to learn to cope and deal with things, not bend over and take it up the @ss. Your logic is extremely flawed. You can list all the players who are injured this season in one sentence. But it doesn't mean they were all injured at the same time, for long stretches of time. To put things in perspective, JVG couldn't win a single game w/o TMac. As hard a pill as it is to swallow, that my friend, is poor coaching. That is unacceptable.
See! Thats what I am talking about! The hatred! YES! Now, when we really suck and he gets fired, the 90 percent (especially EDC and Rockets 03) that wanted him gone can come back and hang me for being his lapdog. But, how can that EVER HAPPEN if we don't continue this thread? We have to keep the venom going or else the upcoming "I Told You So", "Glad Hes Gone", "Gundy was No Goody for Rockets" and "Go back to NY, Grumpy" threads will have no backbone when you post in them. Now, keep up the good work, guys!
Winners of 7 of the last 8. The team is finally coming together. I'm honest in saying I never gave up hope for this team to make a playoff run. Last year's Rockets, the past TWO years Astros.. kinda hard for me to lose hope these days That said I did lose a bet the Yao Ming lottery year thinking the Rockets would bounce back after Stevie's headaches went away. JVG deserves some blame for this season, and so does the team. For people wanting to fire JVG though is ridiculous. He's under-achieved with an injruy plagued team -- had we been healthy all season you would be justified. Alston/Tmac/Yao have all cemented their roles. Wesley's playing like he doesn't want to be traded. Even Stromile is slowly rounding into pre-injury shape. Bogans has been a huge + considering how much we were playing Baxter and where. I'm very excited to see what DA can fetch. I'm a little disappointed we're parting ways with him, I think he's a good player. When that trading deadline comes around, I think we could nab a pretty good player with a DA + Head/Wes + 1st round combo if it comes to that. Detroit just traded away Darko and Arroyo for a protected 1st rounder and cap space.
*sigh* ...I would have prefered that you kept your mouth shut and kept us wondering about your idiocy.
Yes, Larry Brown. If you're familiar w/ LB's system, you'll understand that it takes a good amount of time to develop. He hasn't even been in NY for a whole season yet. If he does stays there, I guarantee that the NYK will make it to the playoffs w/in the next few years. Don't get me wrong, I don't think LB will make the best fit for our Rockets' roster, but I strongly believe he'd have much greater success if the Rockets had hired him instead of JVG.
So you're saying that the Knicks have a better record than us? Because that's what he asked. What you said about LB system and taking time to develop could also be said about JVG's system.
No need to, your not getting the point. Your saying that Brown can be given time to establish his system and that in the long run they'll make the playoffs. I said you could say the same thing about JVG and his system, in fact he's made the playoffs the last 2 seasons and may get his team in this year.
Larry Brown was a real candidate back then. Back then, the problem was Steve. We had to manage Steve, and try to win with Steve, Cat, Yao, EG, MoT, Cato, and whoever. IN an interview after he took the Detroit job, LB said that he was ready to take the Rockets job, but CD told him he had to interview all the other candidates. Within days Detroit fired Carlisle and hired him, no interview. Given that LB did pretty well with Iverson, it's entirely possible he might have achieved more with Steve and crew, and that he might have done something with EG. He might have re-built the team differently. Who knows, maybe we wouldn't have had to trade Cat to get Tmac. On the JVG issue, we have to look at him not as "our" coach, but like any other coach. What would he do in Cleveland ? That was another job he was looking at the season we hired him. Would JVG be a good fit with LBJ and big Z ? Maybe. That team is not so different from ours. Gooden is a flawed pf and they have old and injured backcourt help. Could he bring in players that fit him? Surely. Could he work with players that don't play his way? Probably not very well. So, if Big Z or LBJ had a different idea of how to play their position, and got in a public spat, JVG probably isn't going to be a guy that adjusts. He's going to try and move them, or force them to do it his way, by public and private pressure. Ultimately, I want Yao to be more than big Z. I don't think JVG is a good fit to maximize Yao. Lets say that JVG, at his best, wants to play a Riley-style Laker game - shut down the middle, fast break & high/low posts. Let's say a credible supporting cast with Yao and Tmac can win that way. Still, what that demands is more flexibility for Yao, just as Kareem was allowed to play to his strengths and avoid his weaknesses. I dislike JVG so much, in part, because I think he fails to help Yao - he leaves him exposed, pushes him into unprofitable sets and ignores some extraordinary skills. It was very unpleasant to watch the Rockets lose 11 games when they had Yao and did not have Tmac, early this year. Yes, Yao was hurt. He wasn't really helped, though, with more creative sets. He was still asked to do the same old things. I can understand this mindset but I do not agree with it. I think creative coaches are ultimately more valuable to a franchise, in that they build their franchise talents, year after year, and give the supporting cast the maximum opportunity.
Calm down. You're much smarter than everyone that disagrees with you -- we get it. BTW, since you're a fan of the term tautology, how do you think it applies to your second sentence?
Sarcasm not appreciated. I used "tautology" once, not quite wut ur getting at. More importantly, which sentence r u referring to?
