FIRE Carroll Dawson

This question comes up a lot. In order to settle it once and for all, somebody needs to do a comprehensive research on all 29 (plus other fired/retired) GMs and see how Carroll Dawson fares. It doesn't really mean much by listing all the wrong moves of an individual GM, because you can do that to about every GM.

Also, you have to look at how much influence do the coaches and owners have in those decisions. And you have to do it throughout their careers, rather than focusing on just a short period of time. I just don't have the time to do that kind of research. Anyone volunteer?

Otherwise, it pretty much comes down to: do you like this guy or not?

 

1. he ain't getting fired, he just signed an extension not too long ago.

2. I don't think he's really the guy who makes the final decisions. If you want a fall guy, sure, whatever, fire him. If you want a brand new think tank, get rid of Les, JVG, AND CD. CD is just a cog, getting rid of him wont change much.

 

Pick up a little perspective. You're acting as if every GM in the league as seen the future when it comes to draft picks and players' careers. Hindsight isn't worth much when you're trying to predict.

1. Boston, Seattle, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, and Washington all made bad picks in that draft instead of taking Richard Jefferson. Eddie Griffen looked like a steal in that trade when it happened, and his talents were beyond question. Find me a single article from draft night saying EG wouldn't pan out and RJ was going to be an All Star.

2. Do you remember where Rashard Lewis was taken in 1998? I mean he's on the bubble of stardom, he had to be, what, 15 th overall? TRY THE SECOND ROUND. EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE LEAGUE PASSED ON HIM. You want a head slapper? Try Milwaukee trading Dirk (#9) for Tractor Traylor (#6).

3. Every single team in the league has a bad contract on the books. Even Atlanta, and they only have 4 players under contract for next year! Answer me this, would you rather have a 7 million dollar mistake on your hands, or an Allan Houston mistake? Overpay the best back up center in the league by 2 or 3 million, or overpay Tariq-Abdul Wahid by about 5 million?

Convienent of you to overlook CD's better moves over the years, too. Steve Francis for a now-retired Michael Dickerson and spare parts? That wasn't half bad. Cat in the 2nd round? Turning Moochie into a halfway-decent Spoon?

Don't be such a petulant whiner.

Evan

 

Well, not really every single team in the league. We had 3 first round picks that year, which means at LEAST 2 teams didn't have an option to pass on him.

You'd think with 3 first round picks, we could spend ONE on a local guy with lots of upside. But who could pass on a steal like Mirshan Turksan (or however you spell his name).

 

Lowest payrolls for 2004 Playoff teams

1. Denver ($37.4 mill)
2. Miami ($45.5)
3. San Antonio ($47.5)
4. New Orleans ($49.0)
5. Boston ($49.1)
6. Houston ($50.9)

Is that a sign of horrible mismanagment by the GM?

Evan

 

I am not fond of CD, but I put that no one was better. He is not as good as Jerry West, but much better than Isiah "OVER-trade-b/c-I-want-whitey-off-my-team-b/c-I-am-bitter-about-being-run-off-by-Bird" Thomas


"if I was GM, your a$$ would be on the Jazz by now"

 

Hindsight is always 20-20... give the guy a break..i am sure we all have made some stupid mistakes when we look back on them

 

i hope this thread gets locked. as much as i dislike the Rockets' player movements in recent years, CD doesn't need to get blamed for anything RIGHT NOW.

Rashard Lewis??

Richard Jefferson??

Man let the past go man. Just let it go. Might as well b**** and moan about how we could have had Jordan as well.

 

It seems to me that CD is fairly good at trades. He managed to move 3 picks, highest being a #12, for a #6. He got us Steve Francis soon after Stevie wanted out of Vancouver. He managed to turn Moochie into a contributer in Weatherspoon.

The Rockets drafting is a mixed bag, which is what you'd expect from an average team, but not a great front office. Major kudos for getting Yao(instead of trading the #1 or draft someone else), but a major miss with Griffin.

However, signing FAs have been a totally different story. All the way back in the days with Pippen, Price, Maloney, Moochie, Cato, Taylor, Anderson(turned into over-the-hill Rice), etc. All terrible signings. JJ might be the only solid FA addition in years now. It's as if the Rockets can't stand money under the cap.

I'm inclined to believe that if anyone can bring in T-Mac, CD would be the guy. He's certainly quite good at blockbuster deals. If we were to get rid of him, I'd wait until we have some cap space to play the FA market.

 

If CD pulls off a trade for T-Mac you'll be kissin' his ass, thats all i gota say about that

 

I agree - there were EIGHT teams that passed on T-mac and 4 that passed on Dirk N before the Mavs got him

 

what he said.

 

Has CD made some mistakes? You bet. But let's remember just how he built this team:

1) Plucked Cuttino Mobley from the depths of the second round.

2) Acquired Steve Francis from the Vancouver Grizzlies for Othella Harrington and some crap he couldn't sell on E-bay.

3) Selected Yao Ming with the #1 pick. A no-brainer? Check the BBS Archives -- most posters were lobbying for us to take Jay 'Evil Kneivel' Williams or to trade the pick. And the Chinese government played hardball, trying to pressure CD to send the pick to Chicago. CD played it sure and steady, and struck gold.

4) Got Jimmy Jackson, and dumped Glen Rice's salary, in a set of moves that cost us only a late first-round pick in this year's crappy draft.

So, he built the core of our team with no real assets other than the #1 pick. Absolutely brilliant.

Clearly, CD's problems have been at the four spot. The Kelvin Cato / Maurice Taylor / Eddie Griffin fiasco has set us back, but there are about 20 NBA teams who would like to have our personnel.

 

There are 2 real reasons to fire a GM.


1) Because he is so bad that he is detrimental to the team, and as such his firing will be an improvement based on odds.

2) Because someone better is available.

Which of these two is applicable here? I myself have no opinion; I don't know who's better, and haven't found CD to be notable either for his success or his failure, so can't say we need to keep him or get rid of him. I also don't know to what degree his actions or inactions, for good or ill, have been of his own choosing.

 

Just FYI:

Jonathan Feigen was asked by Rich and Charlie in the middle of the 2002-03 season who makes personnel decisions for the Rockets. He said that, ultimately, Les has the final say so on every deal and draft choice, but only to the extent that Rudy and CD went to him with proposals and gave him the reasons for doing and/or not doing any deal.

Les trusted their judgement and the judgement of the entire personnel staff. But, technically, when it came to trades, CD was the one making the deals happen, but he was not in charge of choosing them or making any kind of final decisions. That has always fallen to a range of people on the personnel and coaching staff. Consensus decisions were made with the coach usually being the final thumbs up or thumbs down guy prior to going to Les.

On the draft, CD is involved in all the meetings, but he RARELY is involved in making final picks. His job in those situations is to provide guidance and to negotiate deals but the scouting/personnel staff along with coaches do most of the draft work.

So, if you want to fire CD, you'll need to fire all the coaches, the scouts, the entire personnel staff and Les Alexander because CD is only one of many involved in these decisions and he isn't the final say on anything. If anything, you might call him "lead negotiator" because he handles contracts, details, etc. While he is PART of the decision making team, a HUGE amount of his job comes on the back end of deals when they are approved and ready for completion, not when the actual decision to do the deal is made.

 

Jeff, admit it...you have this response on "file" on your computer so when these threads pop up every month you can just whip it out.

If this BB ever gets a FAQ....this is another post that probably should be in it.

 

i would say fire carlonia dawson. B/c

1. We have no draft pics, how the hell are u suppose to build a good team for the future w/o them.

2. HE doesent know what to pay players. He tends to overpay.

3. Why the hell do we have no bench? Our bench has sucked for a while now. Wait a minute i know why, because we always trade away our draft pics for financial reasons.

 

Fired? No!

But how can you forget to add Matt Maloney to that list!?