I'm not saying every move a manager makes that the sole outcome is based on luck. I'm rarely that critical of baseball managers, period, because of all professional sports they probably have the least impact on the outcome of the game. That being said, there are times when a manager makes a decision that any reasonable baseball analyst and fan would question, and the manager should be held accountable for that decision regardless of the outcome. Go back and look at the circumstances of the 7th and 8th innings. Framber comes back in after 6 amazing innings in a 5-0 game with 94 pitches. What happens? Leadoff double, and the guy inevitably scores. In the 8th, Montero comes in and walks Stott on a million pitches with the top of the order coming up. What happens? Schwarber nearly homers on back-to-back pitches to make it a 2-run game. In both circumstances, he's got nearly his entire bullpen at his disposal with a rest day coming up. So, yes, I think he was lucky it didn't turn out worse, because the entire world would be questioning him today if it had gone poorly just like they did a day after he left Verlander in for too long.
The answer is it's a bad move regardless if he's lucky or not. In baseball, many times you can get away it. Have you guys looked at Dusty decision-making in his past World Series appearances? He has had a tendency to make the same mistakes. Overall been managing a stellar post-season leading up to the World Series but these last 2 games have been shaky. It's not wrong to point that out.
The dividends of using starters longer pays off later in the series when the opponent hasn't seen your bullpen pitchers as much. Just because they have a deep bullpen doesn't mean you want them all pitching every game, and they used all of them in game 1.
I understand the reasoning, and I think you're overestimating how beneficial it is to the bullpen long-term in this circumstance. Framber wasn't going to make it the full 7th at 94 pitches. At best, he was going to get you 1-2 more outs. In a game where you only had 9 outs left to get, you're not exactly saving your bullpen by asking them to get 1-2 more outs. The moves he made last night likely saved one extra arm from being used. That one extra arm is worth it if you win the game and prevent Philly from gaining any momentum.
I think they were both reasonable decisions. Certainly, in retrospect, Verlander could have been pulled earlier, but hindsight is 20/20.
He didn’t. He got the bullpen completely out of their normal routine and leaving Montero in to throw 34 pitches was absurd. It’s fortunate it didn’t hurt us.
Nope. He did just fine. Some of y’all whine way too much. Like I said it’s the cool thing apparently to always complain.
b****ing about leaving JV in for the 5th is outcome based bullshit. He was perfect through 3 and 1 pitch away from getting out of it unscathed in the 4th (or making a better play on the liner back to him). Nobody takes their ace and cy young winner out going into the 5th inning on full rest of Game 1 of the WS.
I don’t always complain far from it. In fact, I go to great pains to separate outcome from thoughts on an issue. As evidenced in my post about JV.
I agree that no way he gets pulled to start the fifth, but once two guys were on, tying run, it made sense to go to Abreu who was warm to face Realmuto. Dusty was trying to get JV thru 5 to qualify for the win. I get it and can understand, but it’s the World Series and the only objective is winning games, not personal feelings or stats. Also game one, start the 10th with Stanek. Dude set the reliever ERA record this year and instead we go to a starter? A starter in relief is either for long relief with a starter roughed up early, or like the Seattle game when you’re out of relievers. Or the starter has the best stuff by far and that’s not Garcia. Last night, too many pitches for Montero coming off throwing the night before. Neris was hot, get him in there. About Neris being warm, let him start the 9th with a four run lead. Why give the Phillies an additional look at Pressly in the series? If he ends up in five or six games this series that’s giving me Will Harris 2019 game 7 vibes. Nationals saw him all series so it was a matter of time. My difference of opinions from Dusty’s pitching management thru two games.
He abandoned the elevated fastball and his velocity plummeted from the earlier innings. He was leaving balls hanging over and over and the Phillies were all over it. Also his body language was bad and he was waving Maldy repeatedly. This combined with his 0-6 with 6 era World Series track record and you’re just asking for trouble and you got it. My whole watch party were screaming for Dusty to pull him. It was obvious Dusty was trying to get him his first qualified WS win by blindly hoping he could get through that inning. Emotion over logic.
Oh the Garcia move was bad, no doubt, and I first guessed that. You empty the bullpen before you go starter in relief. Abreu wasn’t the right guy in game 1, he usually gets a clean inning. If you were going to give JV the hook mid inning it should be Neris (and I’m not the biggest fan of Neris).
My opinion is that Dusty needed to pull JV in the 5th when the first 2 hitters got on and Hoskins- Reamulto- Harper due up. Neris gets out of the 5th Brown or Stanek gets the 6th Abreu gets the 7th Montero gets the 8th Pressly gets the 9th. As for the 8th inning of game #2 I think he made the best decision though using Neris or Brown would have been defensible. For some reason he is not trusting Stanek. Abreu was likely unavailable and Pressly was needed for the 9th and likely not able to pitch over 1 inning again. A 4 run lead in a game that they simply must win. He had only thrown 8 pitches in game 1 and 5 pitches in the 7th so keep him in for the 8th but have Neris warming. If he started the 8th with Neris and they started to rally he has to use Pressly before he wants to, put rookie Brown into a high pressure situation, Stanek, or Smith, or Urquidy. He can't use Garcia there of course. I think he has to use Montero to start the 8th there.
It didn't hurt us yet. Philly got to see a lot more of Montero than needed. We shall see to what effect later.
I don't know why but it is clearly obvious that the Astros have determined Stanek should not be used in leverage situations. Maybe it's because he walks too many or they think his fastball is hittable by playoff teams I don't know but it's obviously something.
Someone had to get those outs. If Montero was pulled, they would have seen more of Neris or Abreu. The only thing really affecting anything in that regard is when they pull the starter.
Agreed. I think reliever exposure in playoff series is a big thing — Will Harris against the Nats, and I’d argue Brandon Morrow against us was a similar deal. It was the one advantage I thought we had when Game 1 became a bullpen game, but with Montero and Pressly used twice, we’re on our back foot on that front. On the plus side, we’ve shown we can hit both of their aces.
I agree that pitching Montero and Pressly helps the Phillies over the course of a 7 game series. That said this is the World Series!!! Game 1 - tied game. You CAN'T use your second best option. Each and every pitching change needs to be the very best option. You can't manage thinking about game 2 or game 7. Game 2 - it would be (slightly) different if they had won game #1, they can't lose game 2. You use the pitchers you think give you the best chance. You can't go with your 2nd best there to keep him from being exposed for a future game. I don't know why Stanek has not been used but if the organization has identified some reason he is not being used, I trust their analysis. They have proven to know things I don't even consider. I do wish I knew the reason he suddenly isn't being used though.
