Fire at TN Mosque site: Islamophobia still not a problem according to some idiots

I might be there in November. What was really eye opening to you?

 

He said Jerusalem was an example of this something like a thousand years ago.

 

And exactly how does Islam threaten your freedoms here?

 

It doesn't now. If it became more popular like it is in Europe then it would.

 

we are not Europe.

 

Exactly. I was making the point that the freedoms that may have been practiced a thousand years ago are not today by many Muslims.

 

How exactly? We still have a constitution in place (not that our current Christian leaders seem to care too much about that anyway).

 

How exactly is the prevalence of Islam in Europe affecting the freedoms of Europeans? Maybe ATW can enlighten me on this one.

 

constitution can be amended

 

[derail]

My travel experience as a whole during this trip was pretty unique from my usual travels. For starters, I was visiting my brother who doing a semester abroad in Egypt through UT. Israel was never part of our planned itinerary until we were down in Sharm el Sheikh, Egypt, literally looked at the map while there, and decided, what the hell...let's drive to Israel. We hired a driver to take us 3 hours through the desert to Taba, Egypt where we crossed by foot into Eilat, Israel.

My brother and I are both US citizens, born and raised in the US, but we do have Pakistani tourist visas in our passport for when we visit family in Pakistan (our parents are Pakistani). Understandably, we were questioned at the Israeli border for about 2 hours before they finally let us through. Questions they asked were "Why did you visit Pakistan? Why does some of your family still choose to live in Pakistan? What are your thoughts on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?, etc.

Crossing the border by foot from Taba, Egypt to Eilat, Israel is sort of like going from Tiajuana to San Diego...it was like entering a different, cleaner world. We luckily caught the last bus from Eilat to Tel Aviv (~200 miles) on Friday afternoon, before the bus service stopped running for Shabbat.

Tel Aviv was like a cross between NYC and Miami - it's probably the most American-feeling international city I've been to, next to Toronto. Jerusalem is a short bus ride from Tel Aviv, and the two are pretty much polar opposites (Tel Aviv is very secular).

I'm not one that usually does the organized type tours when I travel, but I read about Abu Hassan's West Bank Tours (which I highly recommend to anyone visiting the region), and we decided to check it out. It was definitely the most eye opening part of the trip. Abu Hassan is one of the few Arabs of East Jerusalem lucky enough to have an Israeli ID card and work permit, so he's allowed to run his business and travel freely between the West Bank and Israel. On the tour, he basically drove us through different neighborhoods in the West Bank, as well as in Jerusalem...we saw the Israeli settlements, the separation barrier/wall, checkpoints, typical Palestinian housing and living conditions, etc. It was pretty interesting because a Jewish-American couple from NYC was on the tour with us, and they were genuinely in shock when they saw the disparity between the sides.

Here are a few pictures I took:

Palestinian homes in the West Bank


The checkpoint between Israel and the Palestinian Territories


The separation barrier that separates Israel from the Palestinian Territories


Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, adjacent to the Western/"Wailing" Wall


Beach in Tel Aviv


[/derail]

 

Not easily. It would take a LONG time for Muslims (currently a fraction of a percent of the US population) to have the power to make changes to the constitution.

Blacks make up more than 10% of the population and still couldn't even get basic rights guaranteed until very recently. The percentage of gays in the US population is probably about 10% and they still haven't got equal rights.

To say that Islam represents a threat to your basic freedoms because of the possibility of Muslims taking control of the US government is just ridiculous.

 

Ridiculous isn't even the word. This poster reminds me of the bigots in the mid 1900s that used the Bible and fear to justify their beliefs and hatred

 

Really interesting post, thanks slandballa. What were the conclusions you drew from what you saw?

 

Well I must say, my brother and I were never treated with disrespect by any of the Israeli citizens or officials we came in contact with. The border officials were completely civil with us during all of the questioning, and it was evident that they were just doing their job. While I don't agree with the foreign policy of Israel, the Israeli people I came into contact with were nothing but hospitable.

Of the 25 or so countries I've been to, I must say it's definitely refreshing to see locals actually smile when you tell them you're American.

 

I was in Tel Aviv last year as well (with Bayern Munich) and I thought it was a great place to visit. I have been to Dubai several times previously, and both places seem like a great destination when the weather in Europe has already turned sucky (like in October or November), but my next trip will most probably take me to Tel Aviv instead of Dubai, if I have the choice. It just seems more "free".

If I have the time, next time I will go, I will do a tour like the one you did.

 

That's pretty cool...are you affiliated with FC Bayern Munich?

I've been to Dubai once as well...was not impressed at all. Will hopefully be going to Beirut and Damascus later this year.

 

I used to work for a sponsor of the team. Beirut has been tempting me for a while, want to go sooner or later.

 

bigot is someone who is intolerant of a belief (religious, political, racial). I would say you are less tolerant of my views on Islam then I am of Islam (for example you have called me a bigot as opposed to me who has said on this thread that I love Muslims).

 

http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-already-knows-everything-he-needs-to-know-abou,17990/

 

Thanks for the complement. I thought the comment might serve the discussion well, but wasnt confident as to whether or not it would result in a meaningful reply from the addressed parties.....