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Fire 1st: Garner or Purpura?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by dcfma, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. Nick

    Nick Member

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    Who were you suggesting they get? Who were you banging the drum for? Who was a player, at the time, where you said the Astros should go for?

    Lets take a look at those free agents back then:
    1. Brian Giles (who re-signed with the Padres)
    2. Paul Konerko (who re-signed with the White Sox)
    3. Johnny Damon (who got overpaid by the Yankees... I hear he's now a first baseman)
    4. Nomar (who the astros were in talks with... he chose the Dodgers... and suprise, he grew up in southern california)
    5. Rafael Furcal (a decent option... but still adds less to the Dodgers than what Lee is adding for us right now).

    Wow... real compelling options there... man, how could the Astros miss out on that!

    I can also blame in hindsight with the best of them... for instance, I can't believe the Astros never acquired a proven playoff hitter for all those 97-99 teams. They were relying on guys like Bagwell and Biggio who had never been there before to try and hit that good pitching. What was Hunsicker thinking? Did he think Matt Mieske was really that good? Did he have that much faith in Tony Eusebio? Gah!
     
  2. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Tony Eusebio almost got a big hit that one year, then Walt Weiss made a great diving stop and Eusebio being slow and fat couldn't beat it out. ;)

    Maybe our hindsight wasn't trading Lidge for a bat after 2005, but who knows how that would've worked out. In hindsight I wish we didn't trade for Randy Johnson, then we would might have Carlos Guillen and Freddy Garcia, but who knows what would've happened, they probably would have left or been traded away anyway.
     
  3. redgoose

    redgoose Member

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    I'll try to answer these quickly.

     
  4. Nick

    Nick Member

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    Wow.... Drayton signed Clemens because of an internet message board poll, and some callers to a radio show... not because he realized he was the best active living pitcher alive.

    If you harbor such delusions, like how upper management uses message boards/radio/etc. to judge whether or not they should make decisions, how can I argue with you?

    And... we bring up tangible stuff here because its something to pass the time... people here generally like talking about sports. They don't, however, post arguments because they think it will influence managemetn. And meaningless complaining/whining doesn't add to the enjoyment... it mostly detracts.
     
  5. redgoose

    redgoose Member

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    I'm sorry. Should we be praising them instead? And exactly how else should the common people use their freedom of speech to let the owner know we want a winning team? Could you email his cell # when you get a chance? Obviously you must have it since you have a much better way of putting pressure on management. :rolleyes:
     
  6. Nick

    Nick Member

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    Only two things will/should ever dictate management decisions... ticket sales, and wins and losses. And the latter most of the time has a direct impact on the former.

    But yes... a poll on an internet message board puts ALL the pressure on them... I can see fatty tim sweating from a mile away.
     
  7. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    i.e. The ones who disagree with you.
     
  8. msn

    msn Member

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    They don't need any more pressure than what they already have.

    Seriously, fans act like they can get in there and turn the world upside-down, and it's totally freaking ridiculous. If you were that much of a baseball genius, why in the hell aren't you on somebody's payroll somewhere?

    It's amazing to me that people would assume that Astros management feels no pressure to get better. Yeah, they're just tickled freaking pink to be losing like the damned Cubs. They're loving every minute of it.

    What a stupid-assed take.
     
  9. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    This team would be .500 at best even with Berkman hitting. That would still not solve the problems. Or perhaps them being mediocre rather than plain bad would be sufficient for you. 'Berkman's not hitting, so let's ignore every other problem on the team and blame it only on that.'

    Being a 'supposed diehard' as you phrase it, does not mean one blindly supports a team no matter what and refuses to criticique a team and call for changes when they are warranted aside from anointing one of a number of problems as the ONLY problem.
     
  10. msn

    msn Member

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    I've disagreed with many people right here without calling them out for whining, because they weren't. You, on the other hand, with the notable exception of one well-worded post have done nothing but whine. I disagree with a poster named Ric almost daily, for example, but never call him out for whining.

    So, you were WHINING. Now, quit whining about it. Whiner.
     
  11. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    I concur, MSN (the self-proclaimed whiner police), with every word redgoose wrote.
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Member

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    No... I don't advocate them being mediocre. I wanted them to get a bat in the off-season (which they did), and I wanted them to get a bonafied #2 guy if Pettite was to leave (which they did). Am I thinking everybody is performing up to standard? No.

    Second of all, you have no idea how this team would be if Berkman is performing. Where do you get the ".500 at best" number? Are you taking his average runs created stat over the last three years, applying it to this year, and seeing how many runs this team should be scoring... and then using Bill James' pythagorean model of expected wins and losses based on runs scored/allowed? No... you're making up their supposed results out of thin air.

    Third of all, they were at .500 2 weeks ago... with Berkman still floundering (but doing better than he was now). They also were 15-30 when he started the year on the DL because of the knee in 2005. The bottom line is that he's pretty damn important to this team having a winning record.

    Finally, who here is blindly supporting them? Has anybody here actually said Everett and Ausmus can hit? What people are saying is that while you spend every breath criticizing these guys, you're losing sight of the more important problems this team currently has (namely Lance and Scott not hitting, Wheeler/Qualls both having 4.5+ ERA's, and zero consistency).

    We're not the Yankees... we're not even the freaking Cubs. This team can't afford to have all stars at every position, and if they don't have the developmental talent (like the Patton's, Pence's, and Oswalt's), its hard for them to feature the ultra talented phenoms that other teams are trotting out there (namely, the entire Brewers core).

    We rely on our superstars (Lance), and a few of our role players (Scott) to produce. I've always maintained that this lineup will be ok if just ONE of Scott or Ensberg could have an above average season (search my posts before the season if you don't believe me)... that's clearly not happening, and with Lance's unexpected struggles, a losing record does not suprise me one bit.
     
  13. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    When the fans show their displeasure by not showing up to games, which they will, if this team's embarrasing season continues, Drayton will care.
     
    #113 dcfma, Jun 5, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2007
  14. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    It's amazing that every time someone brings up something that the Astros brass has done or not done to improve this team, it is not their fault. They were helpless. It did not matter. There was no help available, etc.

    Lance hit in 2005 and their offense sucked. Hence, they should have done something to improve the offense before last season.
     
  15. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    Is all you know how to do is attack people for their opinions? :eek:
     
  16. Nick

    Nick Member

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    Ok... so based on the available free agent options... WHAT SHOULD THEY HAVE DONE?!!!? Give us your expert insight!

    Its easy to say in hindsight they should have done something. Its also easy to say with foresight that they need to do something. But, to give actual tangible examples/suggestions of what they should do would be USEFUL.

    Otherwise, you know what it mostly consists of...
     
  17. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    They should have signed a free agent that season or made a trade if necessary. It is a GMs job to get these things done. Not mine. Not yours. The GM. Purpura has difficulties doing his job properly and making things happen.

    When I have a chance, I will find every free agent who is available to find a list of all the players they could have possibly signed.
     
  18. Nick

    Nick Member

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    I just gave you a list... do you not believe me that those were the guys available?

    Out of that list... which contained two guys who were never planning on leaving their teams, who SHOULD the Astros have gotten?

    Yes... this is the GM's job... not ours. Its the same job that you're criticizing this guy of doing, and which purpotedly, you felt he should have done something different. Since clearly, Tim Pupurra isn't coming over to where you work and second-guessing you, we're discussing all of this in some pseudo "fanstasy" world... thus, you're not really having any impact either way.

    Given that, what would you have done... give some actual suggestions?
     
  19. msn

    msn Member

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    Look in the mirror. I attacked the stupid-assed opinion. You are now attacking me. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
     
  20. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    My picks out of that particular group would be Nomar and Furcal. Until I research the full list, I am not saying those were the only options.
     

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