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Fire 1st: Garner or Purpura?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by dcfma, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Member

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    I still doubt it would matter much... maybe they give the team an extra bit of confidence, but then again, how much more confidence do you need in your starting pitching when most of the time they give you a quality start. We all saw how much confidence Clemens gave the lineup every year he was here...how many times did he hold the other team to one or two runs only to lose? Honestly this team is probably better off having left those two aging stars behind (not to say I didn't enjoy the time they gave us because I did) and looked toward more longterm solutions in Jennings, Sampson, possibly Albers or Patton down the road.

    And it seems like the last time this team had the mindset to outslug other teams was when they had a lineup capable of that... '04 perhaps...but certainly in the past few years their focus has been on pitching.
     
  2. msn

    msn Member

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    Charlie Palilo (sp?)?? Recently, with his rants and b****ing about the Astros, he sounds no better than any other fan. No better at all.

    Anybody can b**** about something.

    That's my beef with Houston sports media in general, from the Regurgitators of Drivel who call themselves the sports section of the Houston Chronicle to the loud-mouthed criticism in the afternoons on the radio to the teeny-bopper idiocy that is on the radio in the mornings--any of us can do that. Any average fan can b**** about something, or make an adolescent joke. These guys have degrees in journalism and/or communications and a level of access to our professional teams that the rest of us do not have, and as such I expect more than what I can get at the freaking water cooler--or in the locker room of a junior high baseball team. Seriously.

    And, I've written as much to the Comical and gotten no response.
     
  3. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    They just did a story about Sports talk radio on ESPN and if you guys think Houston is bad, try listening to New York and Boston. Sports talk radio is still relatively new, there's no good ole days high standard to compare back to. It's always been about guys b****ing about the local team when it stinks.
     
  4. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    Do you believe there are no problems aside from Berkman's ineptitude. Do you disagree that Purpura has done a poor job since he took over. Why is it drivel to complain, for good reason, about tired, mediocre players that this front office stuffs down our throat year after year. Is it a joke to complain about deficiencies and offer suggestions for improvement?
     
  5. msn

    msn Member

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    I don't know about Nick, but I do.

    Can't speak for Nick, but I disagree.

    a) Because b****ing is stupid. Offer a solution, or shut up (rhetorically speaking; I respect your right to b**** if you want to)
    b) Because *every* franchise has holes in it, and players who underperform--every year. To b**** about the Astros' squad as if every other team had .275 hitters and better in all 9 slots is, well, drivel.

    It is a joke in the larger context. It's also a joke that you think you've offered suggestions.
     
  6. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    I agree on Justice (especially his blog) and the trivia show of Vandemeer and Rich Lord. I really like Charlie and Matt Jackson and Jackson's former co-host on the 610 evening show).
     
  7. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    Offering options for changes in personnel and management are suggestions. If you don't want to hear fans complain about certain players or management or suggest changes, don't listen to that show or read a particular message thread, etc. Otherwise, deal with it.
     
  8. msn

    msn Member

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    Where did you offer a suggestion? "FIRE PURPURA!!!11" is not a suggestion. "Brad and Biggio and Everett and Mensberg are too many holes!!!!!!11!11" is not a suggestion. That's empty b****ing.

    A suggestion is: "we should see if we can pry the assistant GM from the Braves or Yankees or Mets away to replace Tim." (Note: that's not *my* suggestion, that's just an example of one.)

    Who can the Astros realistically get to replace the players you're b****ing about? If you have any ideas, bring 'em: that's what's fun about talking sports. But if you don't, you're just b****ing. Empty b****ing. I've heard plenty of 2-year-olds do that.

    Awww, shucks. I find it entertaining. What changes have you suggested again? Now, do you have any solutions or just more b****ing?
     
  9. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    I have suggested/do suggest:

    1) Fire Purpura, bring someone new, perhaps Hunsicker or perform a search for a well-qualified candidate.

    2) Demote Lane (which they thankfully did), Palmeiro, and Brian Moehler. Have only 11 pitchers on the roster.

    3) Trade Lidge (with a 2nd player if necessary) to get a good player in return. Trade Ensberg if possible, or just keep hitting off the bench, if not.

    4) After several years of declining play, find a long-term replacement for Ausmus (either as a free-agent or as part of a trade)

    5) Play Luke Scott regularly; play Chris Burke more now that he is back and Craig Biggio less (especially after he has 3000 hits)

    6) Either put Loretta or Burke or at shortstop, or attempt in the off-season to find a permanent replacement for Everett.

    Criticizing and desiring change is different than b****ing.
     
  10. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    There already are only (technically) 11 pitchers on the roster. When they DL'd White, they brought up Munson.

    I'd really hold off on trading Lidge right now. Before they do anything with him, they need to see him back in the closer's role. Right now, he is clearly their best reliever.

    For the most part, they have already "benched" Ensberg. He is just getting spot starts now. I doubt there is much of a trade market for him.

    I suspect if you take a poll of the Astros pitchers, they would prefer Everett in the lineup at short as opposed to anyone else on their current roster.
     
  11. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    That's true. If Munson does work out, I don't mind having Everett play. I have just hated having the Everett/Ausmus combo the last few years. Lidge is tough b/c I think his value is high right now, so it would be a tough decision.
     
  12. msn

    msn Member

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    You asked whether Garner or Purpura should be fired first, and you b****ed about who is on the roster. You named none of those specifically. Of course, some of them *still* aren't specific.

    Criticizing and desiring change, without bringing specific solutions for change, is *textbook* b****ing. The kind of post you opened this thread with is the poster child for the empty, useless, b****y drivel that wastes bandwidth and airtime. Five stars.
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Member

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    Nobody is saying you don't have a right to complain about the players... you wouldn't be the first one.

    Its just that the "same old argument" about how Ausmus, Everett, and Ensberg/Lane/Biggio underperform at the plate gets tiring... especially when you don't offer viable alternatives, and especially when you realize that things wouldn't be all that different right now if said players were performing (as Everett was in his 9-27 streak, during our losing 11 out of 12).

    Are those players sucky-ass at the plate? Hell yes... I'll never deny that. But, do they have qualified strengths that help the team? Everett certainly does... we'll see how Munson handles the pitching staff, and catches those late inning Lidge sliders (which is Brad's greatest strength).

    But, my number one argument is that this team needs Berkman performing at a high level... REGARDLESS of the other guys... to succeed. If Berkman was doing his job, and Lee was doing his job, and Pence was still performing... and this team was still losing 11 out of 14... then by all means, lets throw the baby out with the bath water.
     
  14. Nick

    Nick Member

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    At least Charlie doesn't simply side with whoever is having a good year... and say "he's a keeper," while taking all the struggling players and saying, "get rid of him.... he's sorry."

    He's been on record as saying maybe there are times when you're just not good enough. He used the Cincinnatti Reds as an example... as they do sign free agents, and do spend more money than the Pirates or Brewers, but haven't been in contention for close to a decade now.

    His biggest "whining" comes when he discusses the age of the players in the farm system... as if the team should always have some blue chip prospect rising fast thru the ranks year after year. He's also made the most of the "warnings" to Drayton that this team will get very expensive if they don't start acquiring/promoting some close-to-MLB-ready talent at the upper levels of the minors.

    Yes, he still complains... but all of those points are more thought out than Justice's weekly flip-flop ("Garner's god, Garner's bad, Garner's ok, Garner should go)... or Lopez's imitiation of the typical fat unemployed monday morning QB fan.
     
  15. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
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    Pot, meet kettle.













    :p
     
  16. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    We might have some common ground. My complaints about the other players do not negate the issues with Berkman. He is playing horribly this year. I agree with that 110%. Nonetheless, with him, I just have hope that he can turn things around. In contrast, some of other issues with the team, I believe can be changed.

    My other criticisms of this team/front are by no means a pass for Berkman.
     
  17. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    Do you have any suggestions for the improvement of this team that is playing horribly, or his your desire to simply trash other people's opinions whom you disagree with?
     
  18. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i think this team would improve A TON if berkman started hitting with authority.
     
  19. Nick

    Nick Member

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    I can't speak for msn... but here are my thoughts.

    1.) Berkman has to start playing well again. You cannot win consistently if your best player is struggling... all of the other following suggestions are MEANINGLESS if #1 doesn't happen.

    2.) If there is a trade to be made... and a prospect is targeted... it likely should be a catcher. Hector Jimenez' injury put a big damper on the club's plans for this year. They all know Ausmus can't sit back there forever... but there were few options in the minors. Munson isn't some super-duper career hitter for whom we should expect great numbers out of... and his defense/game management leaves a lot to be desired.

    The problem is, this team has virtually zero tradeable assets... Lidge is an option, but after that you have to include Troy Patton in any deal you want to get something significant for.

    3.) Monitor Troy Patton's progress... promote as needed halfway thru the season. If he remains injury free, he should have a spot in next year's opening day rotation. They may want to give him a little test this year at the big leagues out of the bullpen (as they first did with Roy).

    4.) Play Loretta against righties, and Ensberg against lefties. Lamb's bat should remain on the bench... he hasn't done much with increased playing time, and he's still (by far) our best pinch hitter. If Lamb is available as the first pinch-hitter off the bench, the team doesn't have to rely on Palmeiro for miracles as much (as it is, he's the 24th guy on the roster).

    5.) Promote Bruntlett to spell Everett once a week. Either way, both guys are the #7 or #8 guys in the lineup, and Bruntlett has the added ability to play a competent CF as well.

    But, as I said, #2-5 won't have this team knocking on any pennant doors if #1 doesn't happen (and happen soon).
     
  20. dcfma

    dcfma Member

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    But at least there are and have been constructive actions that can be made with your or my other ideas. Berkman, of course, is a separate issue. But little things like taking 1/3 of a season to dump dead weight like Jason Lane add up to me and highlight Purpura's deficiences.

    Berkman's problems have nothing to do with Purpura, etc. But many other actions/inactions over the last few years and this year are directly related to and affected by him.
     

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