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Fire 1st: Garner or Purpura?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by dcfma, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. dcfma

    dcfma Contributing Member

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    Who do you think should be fired first: Tim Purpura or Phil Garner? Both are very deserving candidates for this honor.

    1) Phil Garner: Phil Garner has an uncanny ability to be illogical at every turn. If a player has a wonderful 4-hit game (i.e. Mark Loretta), bench him the next day. He falls in love with certain players and does not let go no matter what.

    Why are the PATHETIC likes of Adam Everett and Brad Ausmus starting every game? Why is one of the worst position players in MLB, Jason Lane, still on this roster? Why is Morgan Ensberg constantly forced down our throats no matter how often he clutches failure from the jaws of success? Why is Craig Biggio hitting 1st? He was dropped to 6th for 2 great games, and now he is back at the top of the lineup. (Is 3000 hits really more important than the team's success). Why is Orlando Palmero on this team?!

    2) Tim Purpura: Has done almost nothing in the last 2 years to improve this team's offense, save the Lee signing. He thankfully brought up Pence when forced to.

    However, year after year, when he has an opportunity to replacing the aging Ausmus, he refuses. Adam Everett obtains a lifetime appointment as Astros shortstop no matter how horrible he continues to be offensively. Jason Lane continues to collect a paycheck while imitating a major league player. Aside from the magical Jason Jennings and Aubrey Huff trades, he refuses to make any trades to help this team. Instead, he lies to the fans and assurers us that the team is 'in a slump' and will turn things around. Tim banishes Chris Burke to Siberia after 70 at-bats and refuses to give him another chance (I guess b/c his name is not Jason).

    Our minor league system has become mediocre at best on his watch. He has blind loyalty to his former minor league players (e.g. Morgan Ensberg) that he cannot face reality about their deficiencies.

    In summary, it is a fierce competition for who should be fired first. If I had only had one choice, I would choose Phil Garner by a slim margin. How about you?
     
  2. Poloshirtbandit

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    meh

    not again.
     
  3. ballaboy

    ballaboy Member

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    Carlos Lee signing, my grandma could have thrown all that money and gotten him. We'll regret this down the road when he's not around. Book it.

    Huff was a good trade. Actually, I'll make it a great trade. But Jennings? Come on. We got snubbed on that one. Hirsh is the real deal. Guaranteed future All-Star. Jennings isn't even going to be back next season. He's likely to get injured again too.

    I still say Garner's the first to go. He should have been gone last year. He's not a good manager. Good leader, great at encouraging and motivating and firing people up.

    Purpura will be gone after the season, when he finish last in the division.
     
  4. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    This is laughable.

    The Astros scouts weren't particularly impressed with Hirsh, and never were as high on his big-league potential as the fans were based on minor-league numbers. This season, he's 2-5 with a 5.10 ERA. Last season, he was 3-4 with a 6.04 ERA. His stuff is fairly mediocre — he's more of a finesse pitcher, despite his imposing size. Can you explain to me what in this screams a guaranteed future All-Star?

    Also, Jennings has been very durable his entire career — and he has no structural damage from his April setback — what makes it likely he'll be injured again?
     
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Hirsh is a "guaranteed future All Star!!!" :D
     
  6. TheRaven

    TheRaven Contributing Member

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    News flash: this season was ALWAYS going to belong to Biggio, Drayton's illegitimate son. He won't stay down or out of the lineup because:
    a)He'll b**** and whine to Daddy (hell, he got Dierker fired)
    b)Garner has been instructed to play him, hell or high water
    Purpura is not going to make any personel moves because he doesn't know how to do anything but bring his boys up and down from Round Rock.
    Just wait till next year...
    Right...
     
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Dierker got Dierker fired.
     
  8. TheRaven

    TheRaven Contributing Member

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    I'm hip, but Bidge led the charge early on
     
  9. Smokey

    Smokey Contributing Member

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    Biggio is the only person I know/I've heard of that was born in the same town as me.
     
  10. stangend77

    stangend77 Member

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    both..... paps hasnt done **** except sighn lee to a huge contract.....and the decisions ol' scrap iron makes sometimes make me cringe :mad:
     
  11. white lightning

    white lightning Contributing Member

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    The Loretta signing looks good. The W. Williams signing not so good. If Berkaman and or Scott/Ensberg were hitting we'd be in the thick of the division. This year's offseason will be critical for Purp because he will have enough cause to dump Lane, Ensberg, maybe Scott, and Biggio/Ausmus will be moved to the bench (if Biggio returns). He'll have a chance to remake the lineup and we'll see what he can do.
     
  12. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Not impressed with the job Garner or Porpura have done, but this year the blame is on the players. Look how awful Lance, Everett, Ensberg, and Luke have been. True, Purpura could have shaped the lineup better, but the players are still sucking it up.
     
  13. Cannonball

    Cannonball Contributing Member

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    Did anyone see the postgame interview with Lou Pinella after the brawl yesterday?

    I'm not saying Gar should throw his players under the bus, but wouldn't mind seeing them called out on their suckitude instead of the "I have confidence in Ensberg/Lane/Everett/Yo Mama" type comments.
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    honestly, i don't understand this.

    did you think garner forgot how to manage since he had this team in the WS in 2005, less than 2 years ago???

    or was that team just so stocked with talent that anyone could have managed them to a pennant?

    and when he came in after 2004 and the team turned it on...did that have nothing to do with him??
     
  15. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    As far as Garner goes, there's not many more lineup changes he could make given this roster... unless you think Luke Scott would hit lefties better than he hit righties.

    Also, his handling of Brad Lidge may have saved us from getting rid of him for nothing, he's found a way to get Loretta and Lamb's bats in the lineup when they needed a shakeup, and he's not made as many tactical errors this year as most people like to blame Garner for.

    Pupurra's true test should come when he actually has parts that he's forced to replace... namely 2B, C, and now looking like 3B. He got a proven #2 starter when we needed one, and he got a proven hitter when we needed one.

    The organization will have to make major decisions on Ensberg and Everett. Considering you're not going to get quality free agents for cheap, he may have to trade from an area of strength (bullpen or Patton) to get either a proven player or MLB-ready prospects, and roll the dice.
     
  16. TMac640

    TMac640 Contributing Member

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    Do you think the Astros are really considering rebuild mode this year? In the **** fest that is the NL Central, we're 8 and 1/2 games back with call it 100+ to play still. Milwaukee's not running away with the NL Central by any means. Yet, you can argue that Lidge would be a very tradable commodity at this point (perhaps fetching a veteran starter or an aaron rowand type player). However, if Berkman/Scott continue to not hit, would it REALLY make that much difference to have another bat like Rowand's in the lineup? 2 hitters can't save a team that's slumping so bad right now (arguably a team that can hit a LOT better than it is).

    As far as pitching's concerned from a Lidge trade, to me we've got a "relatively" (keyword, relatively, lol) respectable staff in Oswalt, Jennings, Sampson. Toss in the occasional home run fest from Williams and Rodriguez and you've got a mildly above average pitching staff, while you'd be giving up a key component of your bullpen right now.

    Aside from a Lidge trade, do you think Purpura will do anything before the trade deadline to change this team up without trading away half of it?
     
  17. dcfma

    dcfma Contributing Member

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    I think Garner managed well in 2005. He knew the strings to pull. But he has been the opposite this year and, to a certain extent, last year. There is no sane, logical reasoning for some of his moves like having Biggio hitting leadoff and having a blind, deep, unrelleting obsession with scrap like Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg, and Orlando Palmero.
     
  18. DOMINATOR

    DOMINATOR Member

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    oh? 2005 team was alot better than this years team.
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    biggio is gonna bat first to get to 3000. all of that changes after 3000. i'm guessing that's not garner's decision to begin with.

    lane is purpura's guy. orlando is phil's guy...you're right. but these guys aren't playing often to begin with.

    and again...this lineup is BETTER on paper than the lineup he took to the 2005 world series. i would have felt a lot better about our chances against the Sox if we had Pence and Lee in that lineup that year.
     
  20. RIET

    RIET Contributing Member

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    Baseball managers don't affect the game that much, especially in the regular season. If you have the talent, you'll win games and if you don't, you'll lose games.

    Joe Torre was a sucky manager with the Mets, good manager with the Braves, sucky manager for the Cardinals and great manager for the Yankees?

    Lou Pinella was great until he took over the Cubs?

    You can make a good move (or a bad move) and it may make a difference of 5 games during the season.

    The Astros stink because they don't have enough good players. If you don;t have a lot of good players, the only way you win is if everyone plays at their peak - which is not happening.
     

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