I was going to say the same thing. Seattle got some promising young talent out of Boston, and draft picks are limit the damage done by trading a superstar, especially if they are high in draft or over a period of time. Also, the KG for Al Jefferson trade is actually looking more and more fair, because KG is over 30 and Al is only like 22 and already 20 and 10 player. I know this might be stretch for some, but I really don't think the Celtics drop off that much, if you leave Jefferson in Boston and not pick up Garnett. They may not be 66 wins as good, but I could still see a team of Jefferson, Allen, and Pierce winning over 55 games. Trust me, it is nothing like trading Gasol for a total bust, lower #1st round draft choice, and players that played less than five minutes a game
dont forget being able to "sign and trade" aaron mckie who is coaching somewhere (for the 76ers?) to make the deal work. granted it wasnt like the way the mavs did with KVH with a large contract but Stern made a stink of that but kept mum about what the lakers did. Seattle got some talent (the #5 pick, wally, west future picks?) they were looking to totally rebuild via the draft and they got a high pick to go along with their #2 in a draft where people believed to be very deep. Ray Allen was not going to be a part of their plans in the future. At this point in his career Allen is a great second fiddle. Minnesota got some good talent too in gomes and especially in Jefferson. Al is starting to become a beast and he is what 22? 23? this deal will balance itself out as Jefferson starts refining his skills and only gets better. I could go as far as to say if the celtics do not win a title with garnett than the wolves may have gotten the better side. as for the pj brown and sam cassell signings and all you see that all the time when aging vets sign cheap with a team that is a favorite to try to win a ring. Webber did with the pistons last year. Heck Malone and Payton did with the lakers and no one claimed it to be unfair. as for the game itself i didnt watch much of it, saw the last 4-5 minutes. There was one play where kobe did get hammered going to the rim and made a left handed floater but then it was followed by a foul on fisher when he raked pierce across the arm and face to steal the ball that led to a lakers 3 ptr and then the travel by radmonivic that wasnt called. so it balanced out there, i cant really comment on the other parts of the game.
Pierce and Allen alone is at least #6 seeded team in the East, and another year with Al Jefferson.... C-Perkins PF-Jefferson SF-Pierce SG-Allen PG-Rondo That's one of the best starting 5's in the East, say if the only difference between the Finals team and this roster is Jefferson and Garnett. You don't think Boston could win alot of games with that team. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3832/ http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3832/gamelog;_ylt=AqrQrXllzOQSqT2ODvWBYv2kvLYF/ (Jefferson, the same one that was taking to our own Yao Ming, Dwight Howard, and even Amare Stoudemire). The guy would make anybody on the Lakers' front line look like a can of spam to prime rib.
The Lakers will not do squat because they are soft like jelly in the middle. What they need to do is give DJ Mbenga some PT. DJ's b-ball intelligence is still raw for lack of a better word BUT the guy is tough and will challenge EVERY and ANYONE that comes into the paint. If the refs are gonna blow the whistle everytime the Celts drive then at least DJ will make them work for the calls. Ronny is no force on the defensive end and neither is Pau. Without Bynum I think playing DJ would not hurt at all, otherwise the Celts will just keep driving the paint like they're playing against a rec-league defense.
Laker fans....so it's ok when Kobe shoots 18 ft's a game against Utah because he keeps attacking the basket but it some team shoots more FT's than LA by doing the same thing then there is an issue?
Yeah, when the Rockets had significantly less FTs than Lakers, people said that's because the Lakers played more aggressively. Now the Lakers don't get enough calls, it's the refs. Look at that Powe kid. He's aggressive. He got to the rim. That's why he got all the foul shots. I am not saying that the refs were fine. They were horrible. There are just so many Lakers-Kobe hypocrites here. I mean, when people here whine about the refs against the Rockets, I can understand. Every team's fans feel that their team gets screwed. But Rockets fans whine about officiating against the Lakers when the Lakers were clearly the less aggressive team last night?
Laker fans...where were these cries for "fairness" when Kobe shot 7 less ft's than the entire Jazz team in Game 1 of the WCF (23 to 30)? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280504013 What about in Game 2 of that series when LA got 43 fta's to Utah's 16? Isn't that a larger discrepancy than last night's game? Kobe got 12 attempts that game alone. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280507013 Well???? We want it to be fair, right? No, we only bi*^$ about it when the calls don't go our way. Any other time it's all good..... I can't believe y'all are complaining about the refs one series after Fisher just jumped on a mans neck/back for a no-call.
I'm gonna have to call for help, because I am ROTF......Dying and laughing at the same time. I always thought these posters resembled some of the people in this picture
This is what we are dealing with.... Any time I see another Kobe thread I won't respond to it, would want to stoop down their level and make them cry?
was that the game where the refs had to blow 2 calls in the spurs favor in about 15 seconds to even give them a chance to have that possession to win or tie? i can't remember. people keep saying how much more aggressive the celtics were but it looks like from the shot chart that the lakers took 32 shots in the paint, the celtics 23. even if we convert all the free throws into paint attempts (19 for boston, 5 for LA), it's only a 42-37 advantage for boston. and someone said LA won points in the paint. did boston's uber-aggressive D suddenly become unable to foul? did a team based on a bunch of jump shooters except for pierce, a team whose opponents took just as many ft's this season as they did, suddenly start to get fouled every time they even looked in the direction of the paint? at one point it was 28-4 on free throws, and 1 of those 4 was a technical, so basically 28-3. how one team could win points in the paint (and considering all the 3's they took in the 4th, it wasn't like they just started scoring in the paint during their run) and be losing free throws 28-3 in any sort of evenly officiated game? as for the 43-16 game against utah, i remember the total but not the game, but i'm sure it included a lot of ridiculous calls for the lakers. when it gets that out of whack, it's hard to just turn to "oh, the other team was more aggressive." 28-3 is kind of hard to explain.
All the people that complain about the lakers getting favorable treatment in the past have no place in this thread. We have already heard and acknowledged your complaints in the past, but this is the Celtics versus Lakers game 2 thread, so lets keep the discussion focused on that. And in this game it was pretty obvious who the refs favored. All the people that try to justify the amount of free throws the celtics shot by saying leon powe was aggressive are hypocrites. Especially when these same people don't think the lakers deserve the calls they have gotten in the past. My prediction is that the league fixes this bias and gives the lakers 10+ more free throws in the next 3 home games whether they deserve them or not. Last night was just egregious and something will be done.
Leon Powe was the difference. Other than Gasol Lakers are a jump shooting team and that's not going to get calls. Quit crying about the refs and just play.
if the lakers are such a jump shooting team who is never going to get calls and so bad at D that they always have to foul, then how does that explain them averaging 3 more free throw attempts per game than their opponents this season (or having mroe points in the paint this game)? and if the celtics D is just so great at not fouling and their offense always so aggressive despite kg/allen/pierce being primarily jump shooters, then why did the celtics shoot almost exactly as many free throws as their opponents this season? when leon powe plays 14 minutes and shoots 3 more free throws than the entire other team, it's pretty hard to think the calls around the basket were even.
It's hard to imagine anybody thinking that NBA refereeing is any good. You can go back to any game, season, playoffs, whatever, and pick out any number of poorly refereed games, plays or situations. From Clyde being ejected against Phoenix way back when, to Michael Finley being out of bounds in the Rockets Mavs series a few years back to AK47's end of the game flop this year when BJax hit a 3 to tie....that's just for the Rockets. NBA needs to stop falling back on the referee'ing is hard and we have the best in the world excuse and start holding their refs to higher standards and implementing changes (instant replay red flags ala football). All that said, some teams do get more calls than others in particular games. Generally, over a series it evens out so that the home team is the slight beneficiary of calls (part of the benefit of being the home team), or so the more aggressive team is the one getting the calls, etc., etc. If it was the Rockets instead of the Lakers, I'd be b****ing up a storm. But, as an outside observer, I think the Lakers could have got to the FT line a bit more, but also, sometimes, aggressive or not, one team actually IS fouling more than the other. Personally, I think NBA teams shouldn't foul so much...as talented as NBA players are, sometimes you just have to force the other team to make contested, but not fouled, shots. The Celtics seemed to be utilizing this strategy a bit...
So, what about the play that Powe went all the court dribbling, and no one of the Lakers players stop him, allow him to dunk the ball, that the defense you play.
That play, and an earlier one where Paul Pierce was fast-breaking in slow motion before dishing to Powe for the slam, illustrate the Lakers' problem with intensity and grit in these Finals. It's like the time off made them completely lose their cohesion while helping the Celtics return to regular season form.
Excellent post. There is quite a bit of irony here..... 1) Laker fans saying the only thing that matters was the disparity in FTs when disparities in earlier series (Utah) and an NBA admitted blown call (SA) made their path to the finals much, much easier. One factor is Utah is a slower team and more hacking prone than the Lakers, and now the Lakers are a slow and more passive team than the Celts. The slower more reacting team usually fouls a lot more. A second factor is the team behind invariable fouls more. I will also say I saw a ton of over the backs by Odom and co in the 1st half not called. The Lakers actually had more ORB than the Celts, despite the Celts being the much better rebounding team. The 4 step VR dunk non-call was as obvious and unambigious as any. So there clearly was some bad calls going against the Celts too, it wasn't bad calls that lead the Lakers to be 20+ points down. Despite the Celts falling asleep with the cushion, the better playing and more aggressive team for the most part was obvious. 2) Phil Jackson. I don't remember him as both such a whiner, and so delusional with such limited memory of previous events. He has become an unconvincing spin doctor focused on external things and gamesmanship (refs, Pierce), not an inward focused leader. a) making a big deal about the Pierce thing. I remember multiple times of Jordan going down, seemingly seriously injured, only for him to return strong that same quarter. Was Phil so whimsical about it then? b) saying he hasn't seen a FT disparity like this in a situation like that. Hello, game 6 vs Sac? c) saying his team needs to just start playing more fluid offense. Does he not remember the 9 rings he got were with teams playing great defense and good rebounding around super offensive studs? His championship teams in no way resembled a finesee up tempo European-ball type team who planned to outscore you. Those were the types of teams he beat for rings (Suns, Kings, Pacers, Nets, last Magic's Lakers, etc). He can't possible think the main issue with the Lakers is that they need to play more fluid offense. Overall the man is just quite confused, or at least appears that way. I think it the latter, an act, I still think he is smart--IMO he has the best feel for subs and momentum within the game of anyone. But I think deep down he knows he doesn't have answers within the tactics and strategies within the game and available to his team, just like vs Detroit a couple years ago. The tougher minded, better defensive, more athletic, and more physical squad is on the other side. I hope he gives them their due when they spank his butt out of the playoffs.
