I'm going to have to agree, I play organized ball and it annoys me when someone decides to take a charge by moving to a spot slightly in front of players that have already made their move to the basket. I understand if the defender was already there and you just run him down but otherwise I dont like the call. In Hayes's case though, I'll have to be bias and say good call ftw.
I think the defense is punished enough these days. Offensive players are allowed to "palm" the ball, and stutter stop and go..... And the charge has been taken away right under the basket. Good defense should be rewarded as much as good offense. Great call......and it was the right call. DD
Remember when we lost to the Hawks on a last second shot by Bibby? We also had a foul to give then, but we didn't use it. Duh!
NBA refs and rule makers are idiots. Suppose Ginobili lowers his shoulder and throws it into say Aaron Brooks. Assuming AB's feet are set, it is a charge. Suppose we have the exact same situation, but we have Yao instead of AB. Because Yao does not fall backwards (he is 310 pounds after all), it is a no-call (and all Rockets fans are relieved) or more often a block. That is simply stupid rule making and stupid officiating.
Oh, and Sweet Lou, Why do you always take the opposite side in any referee discussion? It is really a strange site to see. DD
I dunno - I'd say it's the refs/league that screws it up, not the rules. The rules are pretty clear. If you slam into a guy who is set, it should be a charge: But hey even that might be considered subjective to a certain extent. How about the two arms EVERY DEFENDER USES IN THE POST??? Refs have really ruined the game. I understand the pace and subjective nature of it, but damn - some of these rules are very clear.
the one that bothers me is when yao is on the block and the defender has two forearms in his back and they are pushing as hard as they can, that is a foul, but its never called. the worst example of yao getting a shoulder into the stomach while maintaining good position but getting called for the block was against kobe the other day, when he drove into yao who was standing still with his arms up but they called yao for the block, totally ridiculous.
That ref. did not see the holding, and called the traveling on Yao, and Yao got a T. I though that that T helped the rockets in the end, and the rockets got a few calls that could be no-calls, a big win for the rockets.
Wow - the woman announcer in that clip is TERRIBLE. She sounded like she had no idea what to say. I kept expecting her to say "boom goes the dynamite" at any moment.
I don't, i just take the correct side. I thought the officiating was terrible, particularly the travel call against Yao - it was clear that Yao was hacked on his way up. How do they miss that? But Hayes flopped at least a bit. Not saying I have a problem with that...I'm glad we won the game, but Denver has a legit gripe about that call. Definitely questionable. My issue isn't with the call or the officiating so much as it was regarding decision making. Once again we didn't play wise defense, once again we didn't use a foul to give when we should have. What on earth is going on? It nearly cost us the game. We got lucky.
I don't see how there is an argument. Were Hayes' feet set? Yes! Was he outside the circle? Yes! Did Klieza make contact with him? Yes! Then its a charge. The replay clearly shows that 3 of the above are correct. The only variable is how much contact it was, but it shouldn't matter. If its enough to knock a guy out of his spot, thats a charge. And if you look at the replay, Klieza actually bounces to the side after contact is made. Thats enough momentum to knock someone off their feet. Hayes admitted to selling the call, but it was still a charge
No, you just take the counter side, you do it in chat all the time too. Not surprising it spills over onto the BBS. Hayes took a charge, his feet were set and he got run into, by any definition of the rules it was a charge. Did he embelish? Sure, but that is what you have to do in today's NBA to get it called. DD
Nope - he "threw himself back" - sounds more like embellishment. I have no desire to get into a debate with you here Dada. Seems like we have a lot of difference of opinion, no need to try to psychoanlyze one another. Let's just let it rest, shall we?
It is clearly a charge. The only reason its being discussed is because of when it took place. Any other time during the game and it isn't "controversial" at all. It's what helps make Von wafer such a good scorer. You can really see it at the game, but even on tv, you'll see him charge into the lane and recognize he is about to commit an offensive foul and either change direction or take the mid range jumper. Kleiza made a good offensive play but the defender fortunately made a better one. That aside, oh man, it was really bad defense at the end of the day. What was Hayes doing? What was Luis doing? It's hard to imagine that is how Adelman draws it up. Even not expecting Kleiza to just take off like that, and even considering that the reason Nene is so open is because Hayes is over there taking a charge, it's still probably not what you want to be counting on as the game is on the line. Finally, consider the previous disaster play where they had a foul to give and instead gave it on a shooting Martin who almost hit the layup.
They figured it was going to be an iso play for Chauncey.. they don't call him big shot for nothing. Chuck went to double on the play, then when Chauncey passed Chuck was going back to his man Martin on the opposite side. Help recovery... it's something that was missing most of the game. Since he didn't take his eyes off the ball - tubby your ball line defense is a lesson never forgotten - when he saw Klieza driving down the lane he beat him to the spot. How Nene was open is a question for Scola, because he had to have been covering Nene since Chuck's man was Martin. Edit: I just checked the video... Scola was covering the middle between Nene and Martin until Chuck came back into the play and lost Nene on the baseline behind him cutting across... which is how Nene was so wide open on the opposite side of the lane.
Its a flaw in our defense. We double with our PFs on penetration, or on pick and rolls. That leaves a PF open that is coming to the basket. Had this been a 7 game series, we could've made an adjustment (although, you could make the argument that we DID make an adjustment at half time).
And why Scola's got no business being out there to begin with. I like how Clyde and Worrell tried to say Nene whiped out Scola. Hilarious. The dude totally lost his man on defense and had Chuck not drawn the charge, Nene actually made the dunk and got fouled by Scola. The only contact on that play was Luis grabbing Nene's arm. The more I listen to these 2, the more they sound like they have a 6-pack before every game.
