the rockets got a few make-up calls in the last minute for the horrible officiating of Yao Ming on both ends. clear blocks called fouls, clear fouls called traveling, etc...
I thought it was a bad call at that point in the game, but par for the course considering the random beatings the refs were allowing Yao and Billups (when he drove) to take. Just terrible officiating today.
Same here. I saw the play and heard the comments from Clyde and Bill. Turned the TV off and was never the wiser.
To be honest I think it should be a charge even if the offensive player passes the ball before contact. If the player passes before contact, we should be assessing it as an off ball foul. Imagine a similar scenario, a player running at around the same speed as Kleiza without the ball, runs into a player setting a screen. The screener would fall if he was hit with the momentum as Kleiza, and the referee will assess it as a foul on the person who ran into the screener. It's also easy to get away with a charging foul if you could easily chuck the ball away before contact. Not only will it draw a help defender, but it'll knock the original defender down as well, leaving a wide open offensive player.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbK33-PYoKo Seriously how are people even debating this? Can't believe how blind those commentators are. and LOL @ when their voice slows down
Even if you don't have the ball, its still a charge. You can't just run over a defending player standing straight up and down. You can be clear on the other side of the court, run over a player standing straight up and down, feet set. And its a charge. Although, depending on the situation, they might just let play continue. In this situation, by the rules its a charge, no question. There might be some argument over whether or not you should call a foul like that at that point in the game. But I still believe they are gaining an advantage by charging over Hayes like that. If instead, Klieza had stopped before he hit Hayes and passed earlier, Hayes might've been able to rotate to the basket sooner to get to Nene who was heading towards the basket.
Hayes comments after the game were very very foolish by the way. He basically not only admitted to flopping, but called out Shane Battier as a flopper. Not going to make the refs or the league happy. Hayes, don't help the other teams cause!
Hayes flopped man. Kleisa didn't hit him dead on - look at Haye's comments: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6219221.html The real question is why didn't we just up our one foul to give????
Um... I'm looking at the youtube vid, and either Hayes is the greatest flopper in the world, or Klieza hit him. There was contact, and Hayes fell. As for the comment, I agree with it. He's talking about selling the call. Not flopping. Selling the call means there was contact and you make it look worse than it is by falling down further. But... there WAS contact. Klieza was still moving when he hit Hayes... unless he can kill his momentum in an isntant... he was going to knock Hayes over regardless.
Is there a difference between "selling a foul" and "flopping"? I think there might be, though it's subtle. Flopping is where you exaggerate contact that shouldn't otherwise be a foul. "Selling a foul" is exaggerating contact which should be a foul but may not blatant enough for the refs to call it every time. Is that stretch? Edit: ^ Post above me made the same point, so it must therefore be fact.
Completely true. Of course, the Nuggets fans are going to say "HE ADMITTED TO FLOPPING OMGZ!!!". But, if you use logic, you'll quickly understand what he's actually talking about. Why would Hayes say he flopped on a call that decided the game? I know it isn't against the rules, but that would be like saying "they totally should've won the game but I made it look like I got fouled". You don't say that. With that in consideration, its pretty obvious he was saying "hey, I was fouled, but I didn't think they would call it, so I sold the call". When Dwayne Wade gets fouled going to the basket, he throws his hands up and falls to the ground to make it LOOK like he got fouled also. Its selling the call.
I thought it was a bad call. Hayes didn't get hit hard and Kleisa didn't even hit him head on, it was more a glancing contact and Hayes flopped. It looked like a flop to me on the replays.... Anyway, there were bad calls all over the place, and Yao was fouled so much. But what bugs me the most about this game is that we didn't use up our foul to give. Very questionable decision by Adelman....had that "charge" not been called, we'd have lost the game. Why didn't Adelman burn a foul???
It was the right call, Hayes exagerated, but that is what you have to do in today's NBA. Good call. DD
The player doesn't have to be knocked to the ground though for it to be a charge. I watched the video a couple of times and yes Hayes sells the call by falling over by making it obvious but even if Hayes just knocked back and remained on his feet and charging was called that would've been the correct call. Hayes exagerated which brough the attention of ref but he didn't trick the ref into calling a foul where none was there.
I never understand the "he flopped!" defense on charges. A charge is a charge, regardless of the after-effects. If anything, a properly executed charge is a calculated flop. Now, if someone bumps you and you throw yourself backwards like a pinball (*cough* JAZZ *cough* ) than that is not a charge - it's a flop. Is this clear? I guess the distinction is in the offensive players contact - not the amount of flopping. Of course, NBA refs, being utter dip****s, almost never draw the distinction appropriately, but I digress.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JbK33-PYoKo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JbK33-PYoKo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Looking at this millions of times, I just can't believe anyone would even DARE to put the word controversial next to the game. There are millions worse out there, and this one had to be known to be "controversial". This call was easy to make, Hayes was at least .5 seconds earlier than Kleiza, his positioning could not have been any better. As for contact, there was more than enough contact initiated to make Hayes fall, although Hayes would have to see it a bit. Bottomline is, despite all the horrible calls, this one I believe is the most legit. You can tell because the whistle blew before Nene scored, so the refs already had the charging foul in mind before Nuggets got their chance to score.
