It scares me people like you can vote too. See how stupid that sounds, well it's what you just sounded like when you said it.
And like I said the tax cut was to get the economy going. Look at where we were at with the dot com bust, corporate scandals and 9/11 vs. where we are now.
I'm only trying to disavow the superficial way in which people want to judge GWB intelligence. That kind of evaluation would not fly anywhere else; why allow it here? I'm still looking for the evidence of Kerry's so-called intellilgence... beyond the supposition we make because of his accent: Thurston Howell the Third. I'm not bemoaning Kerry's sacrifice (although I do think he has exagerated it). It's not Bush's fault that his unit was not called up. Something else that comes into play here is the timing of all this. Kerry's duty in VietNam preceeded Bush's NG duty by 2-3 years. Lots of thing about the VietNamese war changed between '69 and '71. ..."because he's my president" wasn't intended to deal with his incumbency. It was more of a prideful thing. I think the man is doing a good job under some of the worst conditions that a president has ever inherited: the Dot Com Bomb, the "Enron" scandals, and 9/11-- ALL OF THEM WITH HUGE ECONOMIC IMPACT yet people still want to criticize his policy-making.
Giddy, people assume Kerry is smart, not because of any accent, but because hearing him discuss complicated issues on various subjects he is able to demonstrate a clear understanding. He is able to talk about specifics and details that only someone with an indepth knowledge and intelligence would be able to accomplish. GW Bush doesn't read the papers, doesn't have a detailed understanding and often can't communicate with any specifics or detail what are supposedly his own ideas. Saying it's not Bush's fault his unit didn't get called up is misleading. That gives the impression that there was a chance the unit would be called up in the first place. Everyone knew that there was zero chance that it would happen. It is Bush's fault. When it came time to check the box that said 'Volunteer for duty overseas' Bush checked 'NO' and Kerry checked 'Yes'. The forms are public record.
I was trying to match the intellectual quality of your "Kerry wants to run a war on a budget" comment. It appears I have succeeded.
Entering this fray late in the game but I wanted to answer giddyup's questions about where people get the idea that Kerry is smart. I think a good place to start is his testimony in the 1970s to Congress regarding Vietnam. Whether you agree with him or not, he presented the issues in a clear and intelligent manner without the help of teleprompters. Even Nixon and his staff were impressed. He did the same when he debated with John O'Neil on Dick Cavett. While the ability to speak clearly isn't everything, I don't think you can be stupid and debate with the skill that Kerry has. Bush hasn't shown anything to dispel the notion that he has a very simplistic and (IMHO) often ignorant view of things. That's why Kerry is considered intelligent and Bush dumb.
Prior to that he was also in state service. from www.johnkerry.com After graduating from Boston College Law School in 1976, John Kerry went to work as a top prosecutor in Middlesex County, Massachusetts. He took on organized crime and put behind bars "one of the state's most notorious gangsters, the number two organized crime figure in New England." He fought for victims' rights and created programs for rape counseling. John Kerry was elected Lieutenant Governor in 1982. In that office, he organized the nation's Governors to combat the acid rain that was polluting lakes, rivers, and the nation's water supply. Two years later, he was elected to the United States Senate and he has won reelection three-times since. He is now serving his fourth term, after winning again in 2002.
I'm still waiting to hear bamaslammer's explanation of how we'd have mob rule by a never ending stream of democrats if we had a popular vote.. you know, since the majority of the country is not leftist and never will be.
4chuckie, you didn't address the fact that these tax cuts are being made during a war. It's unprecedented. You don't believe that the American people, the people at home, not the brave professionals in the field in Iraq, shouldn't make sacrifices during a time of war, that involves more than taking their shoes off when they are trying to get on their flight?
I addressed them. The economy sucked taxes were cut to stimulate them. The war happened which led to a deficit. I don't care if there is a deficit we had to accomplish 2 things: 1. Stimulate an economy which was crumbling 2. Pay for the war Right now the economy is improving and we are paying for the war and as a result we have a deficit.
Well, I'm pretty speechless. I'll have to drink some more coffee, so I can come up with a response that won't insult anyone.
The deficit was happening without the war anyways. The financing for the war simply piled on top of the deficit created by the tax cut. And the tax cut was a sop to the public to buy votes, the rationale for it changed three or four times from the time Bush proposed it - to the time he got it enacted.
Here's some great advice for progressives who are worried about November. I'm not crazy about the messenger, but I applaud the message. Monday, September 20th, 2004 Dear Friends, Enough of the handwringing! Enough of the doomsaying! Do I have to come there and personally calm you down? Stop with all the defeatism, OK? Bush IS a goner -- IF we all just quit our whining and bellyaching and stop shaking like a bunch of nervous ninnies. Geez, this is embarrassing! The Republicans are laughing at us. Do you ever see them cry, "Oh, it's all over! We are finished! Bush can't win! Waaaaaa!" Hell no. It's never over for them until the last ballot is shredded. They are never finished -- they just keeping moving forward like sharks that never sleep, always pushing, pulling, kicking, blocking, lying. They are relentless and that is why we secretly admire them -- they just simply never, ever give up. Only 30% of the country calls itself "Republican," yet the Republicans own it all -- the White House, both houses of Congress, the Supreme Court and the majority of the governorships. How do you think they've been able to pull that off considering they are a minority? It's because they eat you and me and every other liberal for breakfast and then spend the rest of the day wreaking havoc on the planet. Look at us -- what a bunch of crybabies. Bush gets a bounce after his convention and you would have thought the Germans had run through Poland again. The Bushies are coming, the Bushies are coming! Yes, they caught Kerry asleep on the Swift Boat thing. Yes, they found the frequency in Dan Rather and ran with it. Suddenly it's like, "THE END IS NEAR! THE SKY IS FALLING!" No, it is not. If I hear one more person tell me how lousy a candidate Kerry is and how he can't win... Dammit, of COURSE he's a lousy candidate -- he's a Democrat, for heavens sake! That party is so pathetic, they even lose the elections they win! What were you expecting, Bruce Springsteen heading up the ticket? Bruce would make a helluva president, but guys like him don't run -- and neither do you or I. People like Kerry run. Yes, OF COURSE any of us would have run a better, smarter, kick-ass campaign. Of course we would have smacked each and every one of those phony swifty boaty bastards down. But WE are not running for president -- Kerry is. So quit complaining and work with what we have. Oprah just gave 300 women a... Pontiac! Did you see any of them frowning and moaning and screaming, "Oh God, NOT a friggin' Pontiac!" Of course not, they were happy. The Pontiacs all had four wheels, an engine and a gas pedal. You want more than that, well, I can't help you. I had a Pontiac once and it lasted a good year. And it was a VERY good year. My friends, it is time for a reality check. 1. The polls are wrong. They are all over the map like diarrhea. On Friday, one poll had Bush 13 points ahead -- and another poll had them both tied. There are three reasons why the polls are b.s.: One, they are polling "likely voters." "Likely" means those who have consistently voted in the past few elections. So that cuts out young people who are voting for the first time and a ton of non-voters who are definitely going to vote in THIS election. Second, they are not polling people who use their cell phone as their primary phone. Again, that means they are not talking to young people. Finally, most of the polls are weighted with too many Republicans, as pollster John Zogby revealed last week. You are being snookered if you believe any of these polls. 2. Kerry has brought in the Clinton A-team. Instead of shunning Clinton (as Gore did), Kerry has decided to not make that mistake. 3. Traveling around the country, as I've been doing, I gotta tell ya, there is a hell of a lot of unrest out there. Much of it is not being captured by the mainstream press. But it is simmering and it is real. Do not let those well-produced Bush rallies of angry white people scare you. Turn off the TV! (Except Jon Stewart and Bill Moyers -- everything else is just a sugar-coated lie). 4. Conventional wisdom says if the election is decided on "9/11" (the fear of terrorism), Bush wins. But if it is decided on the job we are doing in Iraq, then Bush loses. And folks, that "job," you might have noticed, has descended into the third level of a hell we used to call Vietnam. There is no way out. It is a full-blown mess of a quagmire and the body bags will sadly only mount higher. Regardless of what Kerry meant by his original war vote, he ain't the one who sent those kids to their deaths -- and Mr. and Mrs. Middle America knows it. Had Bush bothered to show up when he was in the "service" he might have somewhat of a clue as to how to recognize an immoral war that cannot be "won." All he has delivered to Iraq was that plasticized turkey last Thanksgiving. It is this failure of monumental proportions that is going to cook his goose come this November. So, do not despair. All is not over. Far from it. The Bush people need you to believe that it is over. They need you to slump back into your easy chair and feel that sick pain in your gut as you contemplate another four years of George W. Bush. They need you to wish we had a candidate who didn't windsurf and who was just as smart as we were when WE knew Bush was lying about WMD and Saddam planning 9/11. It's like Karl Rove is hypnotizing you -- "Kerry voted for the war...Kerry voted for the war...Kerrrrrryyy vooootted fooooor theeee warrrrrrrrrr..." Yes...Yes...Yesssss....He did! HE DID! No sense in fighting now...what I need is sleep...sleeep...sleeeeeeppppp... WAKE UP! The majority are with us! More than half of all Americans are pro-choice, want stronger environmental laws, are appalled that assault weapons are back on the street -- and 54% now believe the war is wrong. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO CONVINCE THEM OF ANY OF THIS -- YOU JUST HAVE TO GIVE THEM A RAY OF HOPE AND A RIDE TO THE POLLS. CAN YOU DO THAT? WILL YOU DO THAT? Just for me, please? Buck up. The country is almost back in our hands. Not another negative word until Nov. 3rd! Then you can b**** all you want about how you wish Kerry was still that long-haired kid who once had the courage to stand up for something. Personally, I think that kid is still inside him. Instead of the wailing and gnashing of your teeth, why not hold out a hand to him and help the inner soldier/protester come out and defeat the forces of evil we now so desperately face. Do we have any other choice? Yours, Michael Moore www.michaelmoore.com mmflint@aol.com
Good grief, Vegan. Batman Jones has already posted this filth once in this thread. Is it really necessary to post it again?
No, I want him to vote. I want everyone to vote. I want people to pay attention to our political process and, more importantly, really look behind the BS and at what's really happening in this country, and the consequences, longterm, of what actions that are taken by our leaders leads to. If more people did that, Bush wouldn't have a ghost of a chance. And Kerry wouldn't be the candidate of the Democratic Party.
<b>Monday, September 20th, 2004 Dear Friends, .... They are relentless and that is why we secretly admire them -- they just simply never, ever give up. Only 30% of the country calls itself "Republican," yet the Republicans own it all -- the White House, both houses of Congress, the Supreme Court and the majority of the governorships. How do you think they've been able to pull that off considering they are a minority? It's because they eat you and me and every other liberal for breakfast and then spend the rest of the day wreaking havoc on the planet. Yours, Michael Moore</b> This seems to set it up as Republicans vs. Liberals. I thought that the Liberals had not taken over the Democratic Party?!
