giddyup, discussing the way these issues are discussed is absolutely relevant. And it's not a dodge, because there's nothing here to dodge, your smug self-satisfaction not withstanding. Nobody's dodging your pro-life 101 arguments. (Do you really think we're stumped by "but it's a baby!") They've been done to death and argued to death. As in the case of fathers' vs. mothers' rights, both sides are right and no solution even approaches a perfect one. Seeing both sides isn't waffling, it isn't politeness, it isn't moderation and it isn't weak. It's living in the real world where not every issue is represented by one absolutely right side and one absolutely wrong one. I said I was done and I am. Couldn't let Refman go it alone. And you already wore everyone else out. As you did in the other thread. In case you don't remember, many people in that thread had a serious problem with your attitude as well. It's not just me and Ref.
Never said I was. I do, however, wish to advance that position and that is something you will never do. I haven't been pulled into anything. I entered this line of debate of my own volition without being asked by anybody. Of course not. I made it very clear from the getgo that I think abortion is wrong. Maybe you missed my post about abortion leaves no possibilities unless you consider scraping it off the forceps and slinging it into the trash a possibility. I define abortion as the end of something beautiful. The end of the development of a human child. I do not define it as baby killing. That is something vastly different. Abortion makes me very sad because of the possibilities that exist for the person that could have developed into as an adult. But I will not cast dispersions (direct or implied) on those who have abortions. They will have their own demons to deal with for the rest of their days. In order to bring an end to abortion on demand you must change a value belief. You will never do so the way you have argued. Maybe the way other conservatives argue there is a chance for meaningful change. The way you have done it relagates you to a lifetime of complaining about it with no hope for change. If you can't understand that I can't make you understand...I'm done with you.
We'll see. I see you being dragged under. I never will be. I haven't been pulled into anything. I entered this line of debate of my own volition without being asked by anybody. I didn't say it was involuntary. I just said that you were participating because of some influence. How many times do you intend to kiss up to Batman-- your rescuer!!!!!!! I didn't miss your post on that. It was vivid imagery. How is "the end of the development of a beautiful child" anything but killing? Are you into cryogenics? I make a distinction that it's not murder but what else can it be except killing? Do you think my hobby is to go around and cast aspersions on those who have abortions. I haven't even done that here. People construe that I would be casting aspersions because of my position. I've never said anything disrespectful to anyone that I knew who had had an abortion or two. I am willing to expose the act for what it really is. I don't call names and I don't condemn people. I want the light of truth to shine on abortion for what it is. Well Max says that your argument approves of baby-killing, too, if that's the way you define it. In order to bring an end to abortion on demand you must change a value belief. You will never do so the way you have argued. Maybe the way other conservatives argue there is a chance for meaningful change. The way you have done it relagates you to a lifetime of complaining about it with no hope for change. In case you haven't noticed most of the ones espousing abortion are already loving people, but they don't think that children in utero are human beings in any legal sense. They can't or don't address The Freak's concerns about the legal hypocrisy of abortion law. I am more interested in changing the law than in changing some individual's value. Call it good cap/bad cop if you want. You get to be the good cop. And you call me arrogant. You're done with me? How funny. I do understand. I don't agree. You don't need to try and insult me by insinuating that I "can't understand."
Hell you think I don't know that discussing the method of discourse is important? I keep bringing it up because you all kept mis-characterizing my positiion and my words, How many times did you accuse me of calling someone a baby-killer. MadMax confirms that I never did that, but I imagine that you still are convinced that I did. I'm not dodging the substantive argument about abortion just to criticize somebody's "style." That's what I see going on. I have to be smugly satisfied to withstand the full assault of your obnoxious insults. Let's play fair now, okay. My involvement in this was keyed by the oversight by so many that this was a mother's rights versus father's rights issue. I chose to remind all that there was a child's rights at stake as well. There are 3 sides not just 2. It doesn't really matter who has a problem with my attitude. I'm not the one throwing around insults like you did and do. You don't like my position. You don't like my arguments. Tough. I don't like unnecessarily dead babies.
Enough. All of you. I guess we're going to have to ban freaking abortion threads because they always end up decending into childish name calling and pissing contests. So, I'll save everyone the trouble of continuing an argument that is going absolutely nowhere by shutting this one down. Let's just call it putting us all out of our misery.
