I was just kidding about the draft thing. I know it's easy to set up a random draft order. And alternating is of course best. I just don't see the point in dragging out this season if we are just going scrap the league next year. Just set your rosters, sim it, get some key stats, and start the new league. If you want to test rookies and retirement, it will take at least 2 years. retirement? 40 would be good if there was a rookie draft every year. Otherwise there is no point in having the players retire cuz the league will eventually run out of players. ------------------ snap crackle pop
Yeah, random order is the way to go so that no one feels cheated in that he didnt get the position he wants, then alternate based on those positions. Retirement is up in the air. I really have no opinion on the matter. ------------------ I am an invisible man. [This message has been edited by kbm (edited May 18, 2001).]
How about they just take a sizable decrease in skills once they reach the big 40? Like a 10% hit, and maybe another 10 if for some amazing reason we manage to sim this league for another 5 years when he'd reach 45. ------------------
We still need to find out what Commissioner The Cat has to say about all of this... I just hope he doesn't fine us GM's for scheming behind his back. ------------------
As far as I am concerned I would like to see retirement be some part of the sim. I don't know if a flat age 40 would mean retirement for a player but I sure as hell don't want to see Patrick Ewing still playing when he is 50. CK ------------------ CC.Net Sim Homepage For stats, standings and team information.
Aren't there a limited number of players that can be created? Why not make every round random? Personally, I do not care about now, then, never, yesterday... My team sucks and will suck for a long time. But it will be fun to watch my team go 0-82 the first year, then 5-77 the next. ------------------ "You sanctimonious philistines, who scoff at me!"
Retirement When players reach 40, just flip a coin : 1)If it comes up heads - they retire 2)If it comes up tails - they play another year with reduced capabilities. Repeat each year after 40. It may be possible for players to play beyond 40, and with this new breed of athletes I think you'll start to see more athletes playing beyond 40yrs of age. ------------------ Charles Barkely on the Raptors defeating the Knicks in Round 1 :"I think it was the Lord. The Lord was with the Raptors. You know the Knicks like to talk so much about religion, but I think the Lord was a Raptor fan."
Guys, While I appreciate the concern, the league for at least three more seasons will go on as it is now. VOR-- try and listen to this statement: unless I specifically say something, do not try and prepare for it. Players will not retire at 40-- while in sim years they will be older, the whole reason I am doing this league in the first place is to be a replica of the real NBA-- as long as players are playing in real life, they will play here. Will their skills stay the same? Don't know. But they will stay around. And I made the draft rules clear a few threads back-- after this season, we will have a draft in which every team gives up two starters. After this coming season after the one we're in now, we will for the forseeable future have drafts where each team gives up 2 of their top 7. Everyone is and has been working very hard for this league to get a good team, build a website, etc. I think the league is going very well, and I am not in the mood to start over now after all of this work. I tried very hard and feel that I was not biased, positively or negatively, toward any player. The concerns you mentioned about a sim league will always be around. Of course it isn't real. How can it be? But it's as good as I can do it, and I think everyone is having some fun in the league. We are never going to fully agree on the way the sim should run-- and there is nothing we can do. If it's that big of a problem, I guess you can move on, but this is a league just for fun, and I think all of us here are trying our best to make it as good as we possibly can. I've been in several sim leagues, and objectively when I look at things this is probably the best one I've ever been a part of. Just because it isn't perfect (which nothing is) is not a reason to scrap everything and start over. I'm not just gonna go on this quest for perfection and start over every time we find something questionable. No one will ever agree on everything, but right now, I feel we have a good, balanced league that is competitive and fun, and we will not stop anytime soon. There are three primary options for the next year, and please let me know what you feel is the most effective. 1. Start over next November, coinciding with the start of the NBA season, with everyone taking over the rosters of their team at that time. I like this idea somewhat, as it will be like starting the year on an even pace with that team in the NBA, and you can directly compare your roster moves, etc. to that of the NBA, and see if you can juggle your lineup the right way as well. 2. After three more seasons (let's say December), we will hold the massive draft idea with 12 rounds like you guys asked for. I would come up with a random order, and it would change (top team goes to bottom, bottom to top, etc.) with every round. It would make the league the most balanced, but also wouldn't be as realistic because the teams wouldn't be anywhere close to what they are in real life. 3. Keep going with the rosters as they are now for 5-6 more seasons. This league is getting really good, and this is not a bad idea either. Anyway, let me know what you think on that... ------------------ President of the Mo Taylor, Jason Collier, and draft Richard Jefferson fan club! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! Sign up for season 2 of the CC.net NBA Sim League! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000328.html [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited May 18, 2001).]
Option three. ------------------ Charles Barkely on the Raptors defeating the Knicks in Round 1 :"I think it was the Lord. The Lord was with the Raptors. You know the Knicks like to talk so much about religion, but I think the Lord was a Raptor fan."
2 or 3 Definitely not 1. I'd prefer 2 just b/c I think it would be fun to build our own teams from scratch. Plus basically everyone would get a fair chance at being a contender. It is less realistic to the NBA, but I mean how realistic is it that the Houston Rockets have Vince Carter, Antawn Jamison, Steve Francis, Elden Campbell, and John Stockton as a starting lineup or the Raptors only having 7 players on their roster? So I give the nod to 2, but no objections to 3. ------------------ I wrote her this love letter, but she don't know how to reeeeaaaeeeeaaad! [This message has been edited by Band Geek Mobster (edited May 18, 2001).]
I kinda like option 1, but no way the great teams would give up their all-star squads to start over. And the bottom feeders might be able to contend by season 9 or 10, esp. with the common draft continuing in some form. I do like the idea of implementing some sort of gradual aging process. Players gradually decline as they get older in the real NBA, but some start from such a high plateau (like Hakeem or Michael) that they remain elite after the age of 35. Which reminds me. When Jordan comes back next season, who gets him, if anyone? ------------------ We used to laugh at Grandpa when he'd head off and go fishing. But we wouldn't be laughing that evening when he'd come back with some w**** he picked up in town.
I agree again, not option 1. Option 2 is the one I chose, simply because we will have a much better understanding of how to run the league by then. THE CAT i do think that trying to create a league as true to the NBA as possible is somewhat of a problem, especially if we sim more than one season in an NBA calendar year because we wont be able to hold a rookie draft before every season. Are you set on having rookie draft with real players, or could you be convinced to have a fictional rookie draft? ------------------ I am an invisible man.
I really do not like the massive draft suggestion. I know what you say - everybody gets the same chance then - we will get even teams, and you win by drafting the best. My biggest reason against it is the draft will take forever, and we need good and bad teams in a league. I also think some of the fun comes from that every game simmed is not against the "same" team when you measure quality. But if we opt for it I will adjust and win anyway. I'm for playing atleast 5-6 more seasons. (Option 3) This should not be to hard to do - Cat stated the "rules" earlier - and all the new GMs entering this league new that we had a franchise thing going on and they would get oportunity toget better as we go along. Stopping after 2-3 more season would not give them this chance. I also think that we sometime down the line should restart, but then I think we just pick a team and go from there. (Option 1) I think November is to early to start over though. And I also think that when westart over we should move over to Live 2002 if this game comes with a franchise mode. I think that when we decide to start over we should sim 2 or perhaps even 3 more season so everyone knows that there is no need to make trades for future coming 3-4 season down the line. Then we can use this time to agree what we want. I might also come up with a scheme to include contracts/free agency but I wont go there yet. I would hate all this work go to waste - thats why I'm pressing hard for 5-6 more seasons. And with Cat lessening the effect of the common draft you really dont lose to much from your champion-caliber teams anyway. (I probably wouldhave togive upway more in a common draft than I can get back so this hurtsmetoo, but I got the chance to draft Marion & company and I feel that I should object to give something back. Also I traded away Iverson to secure me good draft-picks in the future, thats something that other teams can do too and trade down a star for players and add picks to that trade to even it out some. I actually had rebuilding/the future in mind when I did those trades, but now I feel my team is as good this year, and with good picks coming that will help me in the future. ------------------ The CC.net NBA Sim Homepage - Rosters & Stats - Official Trades
I say we do 3 or so more seasons. If the lower rung teams have'nt gotten competitive enough, do option 2. I'm interested in seeing how this league will develop, and a few more seasons will show us what to keep and throw out. ------------------ snap crackle pop
Like Crisco, stick with 3 now but as the seasons progress maybe go to 2. ------------------ Ceo of the Walt Williams and Lisa Malosky fan club. atheistalliance.org
option three would be my pick...even though my team is losing i'm having FUN...and this league isnt for money or anything, and its been a blast so far.....who cares if you win or lose! ------------------ Who's ya daddy?
VOR, of course this is all fantasy, if you really want to do this, then start lobbying for a real GM position, until then don't b**** about what Cat is doing. He's already putting alot of time into this. Also, I like the idea of a 12-round draft, stretched out over 12 days of course. But I think we should play another 3 seasons. Some have worked somewhat hard to get their team like it is. ------------------ Never Underestimate the Heart of a Champion
I know this may be the cheap way out. But it really doesn't matter tome what we do. I will have fun no matter what. You guys decide what we are doing and I will go along with it. If we keep our teams as is fine, I like my team. If we change them up that is fine also I will build a new team if I have to. CK ------------------ CC.Net Sim Homepage For stats, standings and team information.
Theres no way in hell that we start all over. Haha. Let the sim run. I want to see how my team will do. I put a lot of effort in to my team. I dont just want to start all over. Option 3 is key. ------------------ The next time I have meat and mashed potatoes, I think I'll put a very large blob of potatoes on my plate with just a little piece of meat. And if someone asks me why i didn't get more meat, ill just say, "Oh, you mean this?" and pull out a big piece of meat from inside the blob of potatoes, where ive hidden it. Good magic trick, huh?
I have half an hour to kill so Im gonna try and write this thing that was brewing in my head lately. FACTS: -this is a SIM league as a sim league there are a few other things that reign true. 1. its all fake, its all a lie, it is all based on fantesy. -the players abilities were decided upon bya handfull of computer geeks. they decided how quick ivywas, and how strong shaq was. they did this for all 500+ NBA players. but they did this based on last years performances. they accounted for the current seasons possabilities, but that was mostly guess work. Cat further altered things from reality by editing players based on his OPINION of who was better than what the previously mentioned computer geeks decided on. Cat although pretty fair in his accords really only improved players, and surely (lake probablu any of us) gave his favorite players a bit more (not conctiously). so in our sim we have players based on the 1999-2000 season plus the programers guesses plus Cats observations/opinions. fact #2 we are now playing i the future. -this means that we are about to add players to the game(rookies) we are dealing with new GMs and fairness to them, and we have disagreements over freeagency, drafts, and even things like retirement, stats reflecting ability, and player improvement/potential we need to lock down some rules. I belive it is imparative that we settle as many rules as we can this season. I also think we should start the sim over completely. fact#3 this league started as a 1 year sim. we all built teams based on the 1 year thing. halfway through the season we went franchise. now we are bravely heading into that season. we came up with the common draft on the fly. we created a rookie draft. w are struggling to lock down a few more rules, but its hard for everyone to actually manage their team, because there are few clear solid rules to work with. for all I know next season I mayhave to give up 3 starters or zero. I may lose Malone to retirement, or finley to injury. i may get picks I may not. we as players have embraced each new rule and attempted to exploit them. however I hope that we can all use this season to lock down concrete rules. that way the new guys are on a level playing field. and sad to say, but we will likely have to dissolve the current league and start anew with everyone knowing the rules from the get go. I think this would be the only fair way to procede. also w as the managers ahve to het to the chat room some night and come up with these rules, as well as what Cat is willing to do. he may not want to do all the work we want him to. it is only fair to work together. also some GMs are willing to help cat run the league This is good as we all should do our best to help him, as well as ourselves out PLease drop me your opinions. Cat your imput would be greatly appreciated. once rules are agreed on there should be a group e-mail sent out and such. PEACE ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
