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Familiar Problem Returns w/ Yao: Fronting the Post

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by rwienert, Oct 5, 2010.

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  1. rwienert

    rwienert Contributing Member

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    Watching Yao in the first half against the Magic reminded me of an old problem in the Rockets offense, how to beat a team when they front Yao. The fact that he wasn't able to get position doesn't really have much to do with the fact that he's just rusty. While I think his timing on rebounding and defense will return eventually, he's always had issues dealing with a fronting defense.

    The main reason for this is that he's just not that agile. Against a player like Dream or Shaq, a team could gamble by trying to front and denying the big man the ball, but as a reaction, most teams will lob the ball over the top and let that athletic big man go get it. With Yao, the issue is that he can't beat the weakside help defender to that ball. Yao is so efficient around the basket that the Rockets need to find a way to get him the ball in a position to finish plays.

    In order for the Rockets to force teams to stop doing this, they will have to make them pay in other ways. The major disadvantage of fronting Yao is that it places the opposing teams best interior defender a long way from the paint that he's supposed to guard. With quick ball movement, the backside of the defense is left unguarded and easy baskets are there for the taking.

    In the past, I don't think the Rockets really had the personnel to take advantage of this. To beat this defense, you need athletic guys who can get to the basket quickly, while Yao seals off his defender. When the core was Yao and TMac, the majority of the Rockets role players were spot up shooters offensively. Guys like Battier lack the quickness to catch a pass, attack the basket, and finish before the defense recovers. Guys like Kevin Martin, Courtney Lee, Brooks, Lowry, and to a lesser extent Chase have this ability.

    If the Rockets can find a way to consistently exploit teams fronting Yao by getting layups for the perimeter guys, then teams will be forced to play behind Yao again. When this happens, he can go back to working from where he's most efficient, allowing the Rockets to run the offense threw him. If teams chose to double, Yao is capable of hitting cutters or finding open spot up shooters.

    Hopefully the Rockets now have the personnel surrounding Yao to prevent teams from fronting or at least take advantage and get easy baskets when they do chose to front. I remember how frustrating it could be a few years ago when opponents would throw a rangy athletic big man in front of Yao and take him out of the offense for large periods of time. I'm interested to see how the coaches address this, and also to see what others out there think.
     
    #1 rwienert, Oct 5, 2010
    3 people like this.
  2. ThaShark316_28

    ThaShark316_28 Member

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    When I saw the front...all I could think of is "we. are. going. to. HURT. people. this. year."

    Please, NBA, front Yao. :cool:
     
    #2 ThaShark316_28, Oct 5, 2010
  3. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    too early to point out any problems...especially when he's limited physically and in his PT.
     
    #3 RV6, Oct 5, 2010
  4. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    I think you are absolutely right in how to beat this defense, and I think Coach agrees with you.

    but to this point,,,

    I'm pretty sure this had something to do with the illegal defense rules back in the day. Yao is being double teamed in ways...before the pass...that wasn't allowed when Dream and Shaq were in their heyday. I don't mean to say that Dream couldn't still catch that ball, but I vividly remember the Rockets having trouble with the Sonics on doing exactly what you are saying was easy.

    If you can front a center and have someone right behind him, you can stop him. The Sonics got away with cheating, and even when they didn't Hakeem had to fight like hell.

    As for Shaq, he could seal his fronter like no one ever. game over fronting him.

    but bottomline: you can't compare fronting tactics now vs the illegal defense era.
     
    #4 heypartner, Oct 6, 2010
  5. freemaniam

    freemaniam 我是自由人

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    ^ Wow! This is truly unexpected. Welcome back.

    We saw Jeff's posts recently and then yours. What's next, FFB in the Hangout forum again?

    The old boys are coming back to the board when Yao return, what a bunch of YOFs. :grin:
     
    #5 freemaniam, Oct 6, 2010
  6. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    I am a YOF! ... as much as he is....

    Jeff was like selling an AC window unit or something. What? you don't think I've been reading.

    I promise you...if I get back in town for thxgiving...i'll either get FFB to post or I will take of picture of him and everyone can photochop it. speaking of which, where is rockHEAD ... :(

    btw: New Years in Denver...check your Rockets schedule....I think I need to make this my signature.
     
    #6 heypartner, Oct 6, 2010
  7. Someguy1229

    Someguy1229 Member

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    I find it hilarious that the Magic thought it was necessary to front Yao when he isn't even 100%. That is called respect, once Yao gets back into shape he will be able to beat that front more. Just give him time and he will get better and better.
     
    #7 Someguy1229, Oct 6, 2010
  8. Angkor Wat

    Angkor Wat Member

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    Before all we had was T-Mac, when Yao got fronted. Now, we have a lot of weapons. It won't hurt us as much anymore.
     
    #8 Angkor Wat, Oct 6, 2010
  9. htownrox1

    htownrox1 Member

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    tl;dr
     
    #9 htownrox1, Oct 6, 2010
  10. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters cutters
     
    #10 jopatmc, Oct 6, 2010
  11. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

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    cutters :grin:
     
    #11 coachbadlee, Oct 6, 2010
  12. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Contributing Member

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    Don't tease me, laddie.
     
    #12 ima_drummer2k, Oct 6, 2010
  13. Pass 1st shoot 2nd

    Pass 1st shoot 2nd Contributing Member

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    Agreed.
     
    #13 Pass 1st shoot 2nd, Oct 6, 2010
  14. trueroxfan

    trueroxfan Member

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    1) swing the ball and kill them with the corner 3
    2) dont throw the ball over to the far side of the court, what i mean is if yao is posted on the left block, dont throw the ball to the right side of the basket, use the rim to hinder the weak side block attempt
    3) yao be stronger, sometimes yao gets there first, but he needs to rip that ball away or immediately throw it down.
     
    #14 trueroxfan, Oct 6, 2010
  15. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    Fronting Yao opens up lots of other options for our other players, and we're equipped to really take advantage of them now. Martin will be doing a lot of cutting in for fouls/layups and Brooks will shoot a lot of open threes
     
    #15 OremLK, Oct 6, 2010
  16. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    With so many weapons, fronting shouldn't be an issue. Like others have said, back then we only had T-Mac and maybe Scola. We have a plethora of shooters now, so if they front Yao, someone is going to burn the D.
     
    #16 chenjy9, Oct 6, 2010
  17. van chief

    van chief Member

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    It was really nice to see him moving up and down the floor as well as he was.
    I was horrified when he dove for that loose ball early in the game, but if the he feels comfortable enough to do that already I think it’s a good sign of things to come.

    It shouldn’t have to be said but before we go on analyzing the first game of the preseason to death there are going to be a lot of issues the rockets have to deal with this year. Yao of course is the biggest, and its not just his health. We have a lot of guys on the team, Martin, Lee, Budinger, Hill to name a few that haven't played much or at all with Yao.
     
    #17 van chief, Oct 6, 2010
  18. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    Like Shane Battier?
     
    #18 DCkid, Oct 6, 2010
  19. Charybdis

    Charybdis Member

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    I've always kinda wondered why we don't just start running Brooks/Lowry whoever into layups/floaters into the lane and just letting Yao go get the rebound.

    If you're being fronted, your man is going to be behind you for the rebound, and Yao should be able to get a lot of offensive rebounds that way. Easy dunks/free throws.

    Maybe not as a base play, but I'm surprised we don't do this more often.
     
    #19 Charybdis, Oct 6, 2010
  20. matty101

    matty101 Member

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    Was watching highlights of the Sacramento game today and saw Carl Landry brick it off the window to DeMarcus Cousins for an easy 2. Cousins wasn't exactly being fronted, (Lopez was just late picking him up on a cut i think) but it simulated the Yao fronting situation a little bit.

    This idea might actually work well...

    Obviously Yao doesnt have the athleticism that Cousins showed in that play but it can still be done IMO. Best angle for the pass is obviously from the top, so Yao could post up on the block and rotate around following the ball (as it is swung from the wing to the top) whilst pushing his man (whos fronting) away from the basket. This would create that little bit more space between him and ring which means he has room to seal his man, gather and put back the pass rather than just alley it off the backboard like a D Howard would do. Because the ball is heading from the corner to the top, and with Battier, Bud, Martin or Brooks in the opposite corner, players wont be cheating on D to help out on Yao because of the shooters...

    The other option could be what the Kings did here and just overload one side so no help can come from the weakside at all..

    Bit of a circus trick but may actually be useful...


    Link

    Have to select the Kings v Suns game. Its at 1.15...
     
    #20 matty101, Oct 6, 2010
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