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'F' Is for Firearm: More Teachers Authorized to Carry Weapons in Classroom

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by mr. 13 in 33, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Waiting for you to refute the data with something other than rhetoric, machismo, or stupid slogans. It really doesn't take a gun owner to understand that unfettered access to guns is dangerous. It's probably why the majority of Americans favor universal background checks.
     
  2. Lynus302

    Lynus302 Contributing Member

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    Link.
     
  3. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Cops get shot and killed all the time trying to stop bad guys with guns. Hard to say that's the only thing that stops bad guys with guns when it obviously doesn't. Saying any armed opposition is effective is simplistic cartoon logic.
     
  4. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    You basically want a perfect standard. If any bad guys succeed then ban all guns by your logic. Aurora, Luby's, VTech, and newtown happened in places where legal carry was restricted but they are still cited as examples of conceal carry failure. No one buys it. America doesn't support stricter gun control. You are in the minority.
     
  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Actually, Americans do want stricter gun controls.

    http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm
     
  6. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Your link:

    "Do you support or oppose stricter gun control laws in the United States?"
    50/50

    "In general, do you feel that the laws covering the sale of firearms should be made more strict, less strict, or kept as they are now?"
    More strict 49%


    http://www.people-press.org/2012/12/20/after-newtown-modest-change-in-opinion-about-gun-control/

    The public’s attitudes toward gun control have shown only modest change over the past several years as Americans remain evenly divided. Currently, 48% say it is more important to control gun ownership, while 49% say it is more important to protect the right of Americans to own guns.


    There was a spike after Newtown that interrupted a trend of stronger gun rights.
     
  7. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Most current poll (the Quinnipiac University poll from June; that was the one right on top, in case you get confused) says 50%-47% in favor of stricter laws.

    The latest CBS poll from February 2014 says 54% wanting stricter, 9% less strict, 36% stay the same.

    So hard to see how you think the facts support your claim that people that want stricter gun control are in the minority. Heck, your own quote doesn't even support that.
     
  8. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    I quoted the Quinnipiac University. It is 50%. You are skewing the results. I linked you the latest Pew, it is 48%. I quoted the latest gallop, it shows minority. You can cling to that CBS poll if you want though.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    those are just general "do you favor gun control" laws - which is sort of like "do you favor obamacare?" in that it is a term that has been successfully demonized and can mean anything.

    When you make the polling more specific to certain propositions, lke the Open carry idiots that most people find repugnant, or limiting access to guns for the mentally ill or backgroudn checks at gun shows, support gets much higher. All of these things are things that gun lobby actively works against, because they know they'd lose any type of vote that reflects popular sentiment.
     
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Speaking of successfully demonized terms

    assault weapon
    cop killer bullets
    gun show loophole
     
  11. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    So, how long before the first story......"Teacher kills unarmed Black Student....."
     
  12. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    The Q poll clearly shows that 50% favor stricter laws while only 47% opposed stricter laws. I don't see how you can call those favoring stricter laws a minority. Just as I can't see how I am skewing results. Btw, The Pew research you cited was from 2012.
     
  13. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    This polling question is lousy because it presumes the person answering the question has some baseline knowledge of "gun laws" and their "strictness"

    When you actually ask people if specific provisions, or, your favorite term, closing gun show "loopholes", they are overwhelmingly in favor of policies that are more strict:
    [​IMG]

    It's really not even close.
     
  15. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    I don't feel those questions are as good as you do. I might even answer yes to those questions so don't think the Obamacare comparison fits here. You have no confidence that people understand how strict laws are but you do think they understand the differing diagnosis of mental health or all of the implications of "universal background checks"? The mental illness question is a complete failure with so many "Not Sure" responses. Royce White and Seung-Hui Cho seem to both fit that description.
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Is there currently a system of background checks at private gun shows?

    No.

    Would implementing one be making gun laws "more strict" according to any rational definition of the term more strict?

    Yes.

    I get it, semantic warrior is trying to brer rabbit himself out of the tar baby, but it's pretty simple. People think the gun show loophole is stupid - because it is.
     
  17. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    What is a private gun show? I have bought guns at gun shows (GRB and Reliant not sure if those are private), I had to fill out a 4473 and show my CHL each time.
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    You know, private sales at gun shows, aka a term that is thoroughlly confusing to you
    Anyhow, since it doesn't affect you, I don't see why you'd object to strictfying it, like most of your fellow Americans.
     
    #38 SamFisher, Sep 25, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
  19. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    I would be all for having background checks on all gun sales excluding inheritance etc. I would also support taking dumps that are gold. The problem is implementation. The only way to enforce is to have a registration of all guns so you can know when the ownership is transferred. I have a fundamental problem with that, and I know that the ATF cannot possibly do it. They have proven it with the state they keep of firearms registered under the NFA.

    Why are people so focused on private sales at gun shows? They represent the vast minority of legal private firearms sales that don't require a background check or a 4473. This is the reason people laugh at the term loophole.
     
  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    If a person wants to carry a gun in their home for self-defense, fine. I guess it's on them if their kid shots themselves or them. Darwin rules in effect.

    But carrying guns in cars on on persons should definitely be illegal. I've seen multiple times that morons pull their guns in arguments and wave it around. I've had a gun pulled on my dad once when I was standing right next to him. They guy said he was going to, "Blow your head off." Then he wave it at me, no not you, your dad".

    I'm sorry, but civilians don't have the training to handle their emotions and a gun in public. The cops often don't. It's lunacy for someone who is not a cop to be carrying around a weapon legally and able to use it to kill anyone they choose. People have breaking points, and for many it doesn't take much.

    That's the reason we have so many murders per capita compared to the rest of the civilized world. Because we put guns in the hands of those who need them to feel in control and are emotionally unstable.

    Sure, I believe there are many responsible gun owners out there. But I wouldn't trust some of the people on this board with guns. Not with how easily they have shown to become emotionally unglued over internet arguments. I wouldn't trust many people I know with a gun. And it's always the people who are the scariest people who want a gun the most.

    It's just insanity. It's one thing to have to figure out how to avoid the criminals with guns. But now you have to deal with all the short-fused folks who also carry them around. Geez, no thanks.
     

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