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Extraordinary admission to interrogators by London bomb suspect

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by tigermission1, Aug 3, 2005.

  1. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    i don't get it. seriously. i'm not following. did you want churches to apologize for mcveigh?? for rudolph?? guys who weren't identified as Christians...who never identified themselves as such?

    and what did the churches do in the wake of those acts?? played host to the other christians who were remembered in memorial services? in this culture, do you think/remember americans were looking to the church as culpable in these things??

    it's apples and oranges. two entirely different things. because they're white and from america they must be Christian. you know that's not right.
     
  2. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    What? It is important to know whether or not actions are creating more terrorists or not, one might think.
     
  3. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    In scope yes but at the same time Christianity or White Americans aren't under as extreme a situation as Islam is. My point is that its human nature for a group to get angry when they see those of their own background getting killed, abused and humilated by an much more powerful force.

    I've heard many Christians get angry about how the PRC are treating Christians. Lets say a Christian extremist launched a terrorists attack on the PRC and in response the PRC began to sumarily execute, abuse and public humiliate all Christians. Wouldn't you be mad? Wouldn't part of you contemplate violence? Might you even expect to see terrorism carried out against the PRC?

    I would expect that you and most Christians wouldn't go and bomb the Chinese consulate but more than likely on a poll if someone asked you do you sympathize with the motives (stopping violent suppression of Christians) of those Christians carrying out attacks against the PRC you would probably say yes but state you yourself wouldn't do something like that and think its wrong to kill innocent Chinese civillians.

    That's the situation with Muslims. Certianly most Muslims sympathize with the motives (stopping the invasion of Iraq) and are angry but by far the vast majority have said that they don't approve of terrorism. What's happening is people are reading the first part and saying "AH HA! 70% of Muslims sympathize with the motives of the terrorists so 70% of Muslims actually support terrorism!" when its anything of the case.
     
    #63 Sishir Chang, Aug 4, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2005
  4. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    Not even close!
     
  5. SwoLy-D

    SwoLy-D Contributing Member

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  6. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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  7. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    sorry if I'm not communicating clearly. I'm not asking them to apologize for McVeigh or Rudolph. But there were bombings and snipers who attacked abortion clinics in the name of Christianity, there were attempted genocides by Christians in Africa and the Balkans that didn't receive much attention in comparison with what has been going on regarding Muslims and terrorism.

    As I said originally the responses by Christians weren't too little, and it wasn't that Christians did nothing. I was not saying that. I was saying that there response was proportionately smaller than the Muslim condemnation. Again the key word is proportionately.
     
  8. mulletman

    mulletman Member

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    while not in the middle east, please dont leave pakistan out of this list.
     
  9. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    MadMax,

    I think I can appreciate where you're coming from, and I respect your views, although I think you either ignore the "political" deminsion behind Islamist terrorism as compared to what possibly could be so "upsetting" to White Americans to do what Muslims ni the Middle East do, or you genuinly don't understand the political reality in the ME.

    MadMax, answer this and you will get the answer as to why terrorism today is carried out by Muslims more than Christians:

    1) Whose lands are occupied: Muslim lands or Western lands?

    2) Which region in the world has by far the most on-going day-to-day violence than the entire world combined? Whom are the people affected the most by this violence?

    3) Who is largely seen as responsible for the pain and suffering Muslims worldwide are going through?

    4) Which countries contributed troops to the Iraq occupation, and so far which countries have Al-Qaida targeted? (Spain & Britian, right? Do you think Al-Qaida's targets are random attacks that strike anywhere at any time regardless of cause?)

    I hope you get your answer that you are searching for as to why in today's world there is a lot more terrorist acts carried out by Muslims than other groups. You will find that the answer you arrive at has to do with reality "on the ground", so to speak.

    Also, you do know that terrorism as we identify it today didn't exist throughout Islamic history (over 1400 years long) until the past 25-30 years, right? What do you think that indicates? Don't you think it points to the political facts on the ground?

    Also, answer this: What would drive a European or an American Christian to using terrorism against civilians of another country that could possibly compare to having your land occupied and your people humiliated by a foreign force?

    Do you think that terrorism is exclusive to non-state groups such as Al-Qaida or Hamas, or do you believe that there IS such a thing as state-sponsored terrorism that is carried out by uniformed soldiers? If so, then believe me when I tell you that there is way more terrorism against civilians carried out by state actors than non-state actors, the only difference is the majority of people around the world are oblivious to actions by uniformed soldiers and almost always give a pass to what uniformed soldiers do, usually believing that anything the state does is legitimate, even if it uses its technological superiority to non-state groups (Al-Qaida for ex) to cause mass damage that is on a far larger scale than a terrorist organization could ever dream of. The media isn't as interested in those stories.

    Also: Do you consider the random attacks (in the hundreds since 9/11) against Muslims in Western societies, and Muslim businesses and especially Mosques being firebombed or burned to the ground, a form of terrorism? Do you know that in just one example of that a Jewish American had planned the bombing of 50 mosques across America, and yet the authorities refused to charge him under anti-terrorism laws, to the protest of Muslim-Americans? Do you see a double-standard here? Aren't ethnic slurs and incitements to violence by talk radio/TV hosts across this country as dangerous as hate speech by Muslim radicals?

    The scope is different, yes, but it should be obvious to you as why it differs (as I stated above). There are massive grievances in the Muslim world, mainly directed against the West. I thought this would be obvious by now.
     
    #69 tigermission1, Aug 4, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2005
  10. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    Yes, they have, and so has almost every country in the world. That doesn't mean much, since terrorism is a tactic often employed in conflict by almost every single country in the world.

    Name one country and I will show you how they at one point or another supported/backed/carried out terrorism against their enemies. This is just reality.
     
  11. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Monaco.
     
  12. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    Is that even a country or just one big resort? ;) :D
     
  13. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    True. Perhaps I misread your initial posts.
     
  14. SWTsig

    SWTsig Contributing Member

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    so then why in the hell are we interrogating these guys at gitmo?

    you're an idiot.
     
  15. AggieRocket

    AggieRocket Contributing Member

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    It's called selective comprehenision and it is what plagues the far right today and it is one of the main reasons I (regretfully) am more supportive of Democrats today.

    This clown in London says that religion was not a factor, but rather the war in Iraq. Because this statement doesn't appease the position of the right, it lacks credibility. Had he said that Quranic verses were his sole motivation for doing this and had he praised Allah while stating this, you could bet your last dollar and the farm that this fool would be the most credible character on Earth.

    Certain segments of the far right are becoming more and more brainwashed everyday. It's scary.
     

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