I wish someone would blow those guys up. I saw them once at a big multi-band gig called X-fest that brought X out of retirement. TMBG came on before Helmet, and everyone was slam dancing (best as they could) to the happy pop tunes. Then, one of those two guys came to the mike, interrupting a song to a full stop... "If you guys don't quit slam dancing, we're going to stop playing!" The crowd cheered loudly. "I mean it! Somebody could get hurt!" More cheering. Unfortunately, they finished their set.
I know you're not naive. Nobody expects every Iraqi citizen to embrace this. Some of them rode Saddam's coattails with provisiion and preferential treatment for decades. They have to be disappointed. I'm sure you can find just about anybody saying something underneath or beyond what they are saying now. It proves nothing except that people are people.
Btw - aren't (what Rumsfeld said) and (what the news reporter said... Aren't they different in meaning. And isn't the reporter adding to the meaning, and/or putting more promising words in Rumsfeld's mouth? Just curious. Welcomed = a "hello"- a cordial, civil greeting. Welcome with open arms = a "love fest" - a heart felt open display of affection, as in an "open arms" hug or embrace. There is a difference. Sometimes a welcome is worn out, in either case, but no said a war wouldn't begin to take a toll and wear the collective conscience of a society down to a "you may leave now" status at best, and possibly even a "go away" status to some. Again... there is a skewed, unwilling-to-see-reality, choose to believe what we want in a utopian- slant problem here. We were not in Utopia to begin... and we'll not be when this is over... if it ever is. We forget the point. No one else will fight the baddies.
Originally posted by HootOwl *They Might Be Giants lyrics* Actually that song is a cover. The original song with those same lyrics came out sometime in the 20's or 30's. As for TMBG trying to stop the slam dancing, I applaude it. Dancing is supposed to go with music. Slam dancing doesn't go with the majority of TMBG songs, so people who were slam dancing were morons. I hate going to concerts and trying to watch and enjoy the band which isn't playing Slam dance appropriate music, and having people there start slam dancing because it's part of the 'scene' and not appreciating the music. I love X by the way, and would love to have seen that show. How were they live?
'We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon" Paul Wolfowitz, March 27, 2003 How many more lies till you reach your tolerance? Or do you even care?
They were amazing. I've seen them a few times over the decades, and they always leave me wishing they could play another few hours. After their set, I went to get a hotdog at the concessions and there was Excene! She was getting a hotdog too, so we got to chat. She really likes pickle relish, by the way. Okay, sorry for derailing, and sorry I was mean to TMBG everybody. They were just at the wrong show, playing before Helmet. On topic, I am not sure why Turkey has become such a prominent El Queso target now. I know they are viewed as "pro-US" for a Muslim nation, but I'm wondering if they have especially bad security holes also. I wonder exactly how much worse this will get?
For the same reason that unicorns don't exist. It was fantasy, recited in the form of sworn testimony before Congress.
What question? Are you arguing that the reconstruction of Iraq financed itself, relatively quickly? I doubt you need me to explain that it didn't/hasn't.
Originally posted by SamFisher What question? <b>Why did that not turn out to be true?</b> Are you arguing that the reconstruction of Iraq financed itself, relatively quickly? I doubt you need me to explain that it didn't/hasn't. <b>No. I was thinking that some of the terrorist activity which was turned against Iraq's own infrastructure (inclulding oil) had something to do with it. Also, the stronger levels of resistance make it harder to move onto more productive activities.</b>
nope. Iraq's oil industry was in a state of decay before the war. Even at full capacity, it would barely be able to pay for its own renovation, much less Iraq's. Besides, even if it wasn't true, it was his job to plan for this, and they had several reports/studies by the state dep't, etc that said that this was going to happen, that the reconstruction would be long and costly, etc. They ignored them, and sold us the BS about the happy ending, open arms, and it paying for itself.
The fact that there was resistance and looting was entirely within the realm of the Bushies. They had an opportunity to plan for the postwar period and their only plan was that Iraqis would embrace us with open arms so the Bushies did not send enough forces for an occupation. They cannot say it's not our fault, as the occupying power, it is our responsibility to provide security, failure to do so was our mistake and our legal obligation. A simple comparison of the ratio of troops to population similar to the ones used in other peacekeeping operations shows we are understaffed by about 400000 soldiers in Iraq.
james taranto on the bombing and the "protestors" in london: "It seems clear the bombers, by selecting British targets, were trying to send Britain a message: Do not stand with the United States in the war against Islamist terrorists. The 50,000 London protesters were lawfully exercising their democratic freedoms, but their message was the same."
"It seems clear the bombers, by selecting British targets, were trying to send Britain a message: Do not stand with the United States in the war against Islamist terrorists. The 50,000 London protesters were lawfully exercising their democratic freedoms, but their message was the same." What does it say about your leadership when both your friends and enemies dislike you?
Apparently, we have a new front in the terror war and an unlimited number of future fronts. Here's the main (and disturbing) quote... "Terrorists have decided to use Turkey as a front," Bush, on a visit to Britain, told reporters. "Two major explosions. Iraq is a front. Turkey is a front. Anywhere the terrorists think they can strike is a front." ____________________ Bush Says Turkey New Front in 'War on Terror' Fri Nov 21, 3:20 PM ET Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo! By Brian Williams ISTANBUL (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) said on Friday Turkey had become a battleground in the "war on terror" as police made their first arrests in deadly truck bomb attacks on British targets in Istanbul. The United States joined Britain in warning its citizens to defer non-essential travel to Turkey over fears of further terror attacks in the country of 70 million following four suicide bombings in the commercial capital in six days. A statement purporting to come from a unit of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al Qaeda network said it carried out Thursday's twin strikes on the British consulate and the London-based HSBC bank which killed 27 people and wounded more than 400. Five days earlier 25 people were killed in similar suicide attacks on Istanbul synagogues, making this the worst week of peacetime violence in Turkey's modern history. "Terrorists have decided to use Turkey as a front," Bush, on a visit to Britain, told reporters. "Two major explosions. Iraq is a front. Turkey is a front. Anywhere the terrorists think they can strike is a front." Bush also called Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan to pledge solidarity with Turkey, a key NATO (news - web sites) ally promoted by Washington as a model of Islamic democracy. Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said some people had been arrested in Thursday's attacks, without giving details. The Turkish daily Hurriyet said seven people had been arrested in the strikes, which it said were carried out by Turkish suicide bombers. A spokesman at the Istanbul governor's incident room could not confirm the report. FEAR, DEFIANCE Many Turks were among the 27 dead, who also included British Consul General Roger Short. Some 24 hours later the mood on the streets of the normally vibrant city was somber. "Istiklal (Istanbul's main pedestrian thoroughfare) is as crowded as ever today, but there is fear now. People are expecting another explosion could occur at any time," said Ahmet Kerim, 30, whose family gift shop lost its windows in the blast. Turkey's National Security Council, an advisory body grouping political leaders and influential military commanders, issued a statement on Friday evening after more than five hours of talks. "International terror will not achieve its aim because our nation and our state are determined to overcome it," said the statement, which also urged global unity against terrorism. Trade unions announced a series of "peace protests" in major Turkish cities on Saturday to express revulsion at the blasts, which have dented the image of this European Union (news - web sites) candidate on the road to recovery from a 2001 financial crisis. Expatriates, who are numbered in their thousands in the key financial city bordering Europe and Asia, sounded defiant. "This is not a September 11 attack. This can happen in Nigeria, America or even Germany," said German Christian Johannes, 33, a partner in a firm working in the energy sector. HSBC Holdings Plc, Britain's biggest company, said it had resumed service in Turkey despite the blasts. HSBC Bank has about 160 branches in the country. The HSBC headquarters stood in Istanbul's affluent Levent district, which is dotted with skyscrapers hosting many leading Turkish banks and industrial groups as well as foreign firms. "This is the heart of the Turkish economy. It is our Wall Street," said banker Hikmet, 32, standing at a police barricade and straining to see the damage inflicted on HSBC by the blast. CLAIM OF RESPONSIBILITY A statement apparently from a unit of al Qaeda, the Abu Hafz al-Masri Brigades, and published on the Islamist Web site Al Mujahidoun, said it had carried out the latest attacks. It could not be independently authenticated. The Abu Hafz claim, in Arabic, said Turkey was targeted because of its membership in the "crusader" NATO alliance and its ties with the "Zionist entity" Israel. A Turkish group called the Islamic Great Eastern Raiders Front (IBDA-C) has also claimed joint responsibility with al Qaeda for all four Istanbul attacks and warned the network was planning more strikes against the United States and its allies. Both groups earlier claimed responsibility for the synagogue attacks last Saturday. Thursday's double strike shocked world markets. Turkish financial markets held their nerve on Friday, with the lira ending slightly firmer though the stock market remained shut. European and U.S. shares recovered some ground. (Additional reporting by Claudia Parsons in Istanbul and Caren Bohan in Sedgefield, England)
Many people died and hundreds of innocent people are severely injured. All of you arguing like petty kids in this thread should be ashamed of yourselves for not showing respect by putting your childish argument above grieving for the innocent people who died in these terrorist attacks.
