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Ex-referee Tim Donaghy blows whistle on NBA dirty secrets

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by BAM, Jun 10, 2008.

  1. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    You have to believe that if they ever want to fix something they would have fixed the Shaq, James and Yao drafts; yet, they clearly did not.
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    1. IIRC, Spygate found its way to the front page of the paper..or at least to the news section. Not merely relegated to being a sports story. I know Clemens' deal did, but I shudder to mention baseball for fear of your internet is serious business reprisals.

    2. I'm not arguing a soft-touch treatment or media darling! I didn't say that. Someone else said this wouldn't get the attention that Spygate and steroids got. I said I agree and asked aloud why that is, particularly given the impact of the allegations if even remotely true. Without you here, I'm guessing someone might have attempted to answer the question...it might have even fueled real discussion.
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    No you don't. Why? The only thing being suggested is that in that one year something went down. If a guy who robbed a bank 20 years ago passes a bank without robbing it today, is that evidence he didn't really rob the bank 20 years ago?
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Lets not forget that the odds against the Knicks were an astronomical 1 in 7.
     
  5. HAYJON02

    HAYJON02 Member

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    No, but you're assuming advantageous situations (for the NBA) don't come about by chance and therefore it was rigged? That's what you're saying.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I'm not assuming anything. I only said I would not be surprised if someone came out and said, "yeah..that was intentional that year."
     
  7. HAYJON02

    HAYJON02 Member

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    You don't have any evidence. You're assuming. Maybe hoping? Anyway, it's cynical hoping.
     
  8. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    you're assuming i'm hoping. i don't care at this point if that happened or not. i merely said it wouldn't surprise me. i'm not naive enough to assume that corruption doesn't exist in pro sports...because i've already seen it does.

    http://www.onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/czabe052108.html
     
  9. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Member

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    the lottery isnt rigged imo it would make it too easy to have people figure it out if they see the big name rookies keep going to prime markets when there are crazy odds for them to do so.

    rather its probably easier for them to let them go where they go and then help them and and make a new large market.

    lebron going to cleveland granted not a big market but they made a lot of money making it a big market and can only hope now he gets pushed to go to NY or somewhere else once he is a free agent.
     
  10. bnb

    bnb Member

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    Steroids was the perfect storm. An 'unlikable' character in Bonds pursuing an important baseball record at a time when many were frustrated with professional sports. Everytime he was at bat it sparked the controversy. And it didn't look like there was anything that could be done with it. And the constant denials....followed by more and more plausable accusations. It was a good story. Good guys and bad guys. The 'hero' (bonds) being taken down. And it came at the right time. (the timing of the steroid accusations the time of McGuire, Sosa, et al was not so good -- so the story died).

    Spygate -- NFL; superbowl champs; No where near the steriods story. But again -- decent story -- interesting protagonists. Did they? Didn't they? Are they 'real' champs?

    This? -- It's big...but the central characters are ref's who no one really follows, primarily one who has already been disgraced. A much harder story to digest. Replace game fixing with a rape allegation against a star player and THEN you've got a story. But even if the impact here is bigger -- you're sort of confirming a conspiracy theory -- there's no real debate. They're not going to replay the games. Had star players thrown games -- then you've got a story. Bunch of back room boys -- well -- we never trusted them anyways.

    But it is on the news. And if it gets dirtier -- and juicier -- then the story will take off.
     
  11. HAYJON02

    HAYJON02 Member

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    Your right about me being unfair articulating your thoughts for you. Sorry! Boo cynicism. I slipped.

    I just think you give this particular conspiracy theory too much thought. If you consider one, why not all of them?
     
  12. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Thanks for a real response without a veiled fight.
     
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i don't know what that means?

    how about this...it wouldn't surprise me if any pro sports league had the fix in at one point. i know for a fact it happened in 1919 in major league baseball. it would not surprise me at all to see it happen again, in some form or fashion...and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that it had happened since 1919.

    i would suggest that 1919 nearly blew the doors off baseball and they were fortunate to have the persona of babe ruth to escape that period. if half of what this guy says is true (and i certainly dont' know it is) it would be devastating for the league.
     
  14. ibm

    ibm Member

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    i don't know the truth since i don't have all information. but ewing going to the knicks sure looked a staged event.

    this is not necessarily conspiracy. and even conspiracy doesn't necessarily happen every year. you can say tim d is a crook and his words can't be taken too seriously; but in between the words of david stern and jeff van gundy, i think it's crystal clear whose are more credible.

    thanks for bringing back all the painful memories.
     
  15. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    No, the NBA wouldn't want to fix that. Where does their interest really lie? It may be good for the league to have big name players in big name towns, but the league is owned by the franchise owners. It isn't in the interest of the owners of teams in Milwaukee or Atlanta or Utah to fix the draft -- the personal detriment outweighs the general benefit.

    Nor do the owners really have an interest in fixing the winners of playoff series. No owner wants to be on the losing side of the fix. However, fixing a Game 3 or 4 or 6 to extend the series is a general benefit that is not outweighed by personal detriment. The loser still has a chance to win the series in the next game(s). So, the league can reap the benefit of more ticket sales and more airtime from longer series without outright picking a winner.
     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I've seen this sentiment expressed a couple of times -- "if it is true." We likely won't be getting any more information than we have now. All the NBA folks have already registered their denials. People will either believe Donaghy or they won't. So, will this letter devastate the league or will it not, regardless of whether it is true?

    I think it will not. I think the public will wonder, and even object when a game looks unfair. But, as long as the league keeps a united front denying any fix, it'll be enough for the public to suspend disbelief, attend games, and pretend like the contest is basically legitimate. At most, the league will have to make some sort of structural change to eliminate the perception that games could be fixed in the future.
     
  17. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Great point juan, people tend to forget that the league is the group of owners, not David Stern. So while it may not be in the best interest of the "league" for San Antonio to be dominating, it is in the interest of San Antonio.

    On the Mark Cuban/JVG issue. People have taken what JVG said and extrapolated it to a larger issue that he wasn't trying to address. All he was saying is that refs were officiating Yao a certain way. Well guess what? Yao is a 7'5" guy who is hard to officiate and special notices are going to go out on people with special abilities or unique circumstances. its the nature of the beast. no conspiracy
     
  18. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Completely agreed. If this is all there ever is, it's not going anywhere.
     
  19. poprocks

    poprocks Member

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    Oh it's going somewhere alright

    From Sports Illustrated.

    More fuel for the fire: The NBA's perception problem keeps growing Story Highlights
    Tim Donaghy's latest allegations are a boon for NBA conspiracy theorists
    Donaghy's claims of game-fixing play into the worst suspicions about the NBA
    The NBA needs to start making refs more available to explain controversial calls




    NBA commissioner David Stern has dismissed Tim Donaghy's allegations as baseless.
    Timothy A. Clary/AFP/Getty Images
    Related Links
    THOMSEN: Donaghy casts shadow over Finals
    REACT: Your take on Donaghy's allegations
    SI VAULT: It's the fans who get cheated
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    It's a lot harder to laugh at the NBA conspiracy theorists today, isn't it?

    When they tell you that the 1985 draft lottery was rigged to make sure Patrick Ewing would be a Knick, they don't sound quite so paranoid or delusional anymore.

    If they lay out their theory that Michael Jordan's first retirement was really a hush-hush suspension for gambling, you don't feel quite as confident in brushing them off.

    And if they tell you Game 2 of this year's Finals, when the Celtics shot 38 free throws to the Lakers' 10, smells fishy, well, can you really argue?

    That's what Tim Donaghy, the rogue referee who is fast becoming commissioner David Stern's worst nightmare, has brought about with his stunning accusations of biased officiating, fixed playoff games and other improprieties. He has put it all in play -- all the suspicions, all the skepticism, all the whispers that something about the NBA just doesn't feel completely on the up-and-up.

    We knew that Donaghy himself had bet on games and accepted cash for inside information to gamblers, crimes for which he has been convicted and faces a possible 33 months in prison. But in a letter filed by his lawyer to the sentencing court Tuesday, Donaghy alleges he was far from the only culprit, that the dishonesty and deception and rigging of outcomes in the NBA reached as far up as the league's executive offices.

    The veracity of Donaghy's claims, in which he named no names, is very much up for debate. As Stern pointed out Tuesday, these are the allegations of an admitted felon, and it's easy to attack his credibility. Also, although the specific allegations came to light Tuesday, Donaghy originally shared the information with the authorities months ago, yet he remains the only NBA official or executive charged with any wrongdoing. In short, the possibility exists that the accusations are as baseless as Stern says they are.

    But ... there is that "but," isn't there? There is so much smoke that maybe Donaghy is finally exposing the fire. Remember how the Miami Heat overcame a 2-0 Finals deficit in 2006 when Dwyane Wade suddenly began getting every call against the Dallas Mavericks? How about the end of Game 4 of the Lakers-Spurs series this year, when Brent Barry didn't get an obvious foul call just before the buzzer that might have given San Antonio life? Suddenly, crucial, controversial calls or non-calls all seem worthy of another look with a more cynical eye.

    Much of what Donaghy alleges seems plausible enough. The charges, if true, would explain a great deal. He told authorities that in 2002 two referees conspired in a playoff series to ensure the series would reach a seventh game. The only series that went seven games that year was the Western Conference finals between the Sacramento Kings and the Los Angeles Lakers, in which the Lakers shot a whopping 27 free throws in the fourth quarter of Game 6, helping them to avoid elimination in Los Angeles. They eventually won Game 7 in Sacramento as well.

    Anyone who watched that game remembers how strangely lopsided the officiating seemed, particularly in the fourth quarter. Among the egregiously blown calls was a blatant elbow by Kobe Bryant against the Kings' Mike Bibby that somehow escaped detection. It was a game that immediately aroused the suspicion of conspiracy theorists and the suspicion of Kings fans, but it was eventually chalked up as another example of the unpredictable nature of officiating rather than any intentional effort to control the outcome. Now, we're not so sure.

    But Donaghy doesn't stop there. He also claims that referees were instructed by league executives to protect star players from technical fouls and ejections in order to keep television ratings up, and that when a star player was ejected from a 2000 playoff game, an official was privately reprimanded by the league.

    It would be easier to chalk up all of this as the groundless allegations of a desperate man if it didn't play into so many of the suspicions about the league that have existed for years but have been dismissed by the NBA as a minor annoyance instead of a serious issue to address. About two years ago, before the Donaghy scandal came to light, I sat with Stern in a conference room in the NBA offices in New York as he laughed off the idea that the league had a reputation for questionable officiating. He said there were no referees in any sport that were scrutinized more closely than NBA officials, and that he had no doubts about their honesty.

    Stern can't be laughing now. Even if Donaghy's claims aren't true, league executives have to recognize that the NBA has given fans reason to believe that his claims are, partly because of the league's cavalier attitude toward the inconsistencies in the way games are called. Players, coaches, media and fans have all questioned NBA officiating at one time or another, and the league would be wise to finally take those questions seriously.

    A good place to start would be with making the process more transparent, including having referees give more interviews to explain controversial calls. The league office should also publicly instruct the referees that they are to call the game without giving special treatment to stars, and without considering the time or score. No more swallowing the whistles at the end of close games. There's not much Stern and his associates can do to change what happened in the past, but they can address the future.

    Stern can shout from the top of the Manhattan skyscraper that houses the league's headquarters that none of Donaghy's allegations are true, but the real problem for the NBA is that hardly anyone would be surprised if they were.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/phil_taylor/06/11/donaghy/?cnn=yes
     
  20. ndnguy85

    ndnguy85 Contributing Member

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