It doesn't mean squat his #'s have gone up? Interesting opinion. As I've already stated, you don't need to teach Yao how to do what he already does well. Why does Ewing need to help Yao's finesse game? And as you've stated yourself, Yao's physical game HAS improved. Just admit you have a blind hatred of JVG and we can kill this thread.
Uh...when? I don't recall them sending in their CVs to the Toyota Center and/or the Chinese Authorities. Yes, they may have mouthed off about teaching when Walton was waxing poetic in a hyperbolic stream of consciousness during a 20-second timeout - but honestly, when did these guys come to the Rox and say "I want a job teaching Yao, I'll be here on x-days and travel with the team - etc, pay me 500$ a session and I'm yours", and when did the Rox say "Sorry, we got Ewing - NO SOUP FOR YOU BOYS!"? I don't recall that ever happening, save Kareem whining and pissing and moaning for what seemed like a decade about how he was blackballed by the NBA and how nobody was nice to him. Bringing up Hakeem is silly in and of itself, considering that he spends his summers in Houston while Yao spends them in China. Steve Francis and (I think) T-Mac visited Yao in China in the summer - I don't think anybody would have stopped Hakeem had he done the same. So that leaves us with Mo - who is apparently a "consultant" with Philly. I don't know how a part-time Mo, who was a physical 6-9 power center 26 years ago, is going to help your cause much, considering that the knock on Ewing by the bashers is that he's not a "finesse" coach that Yao needs. If Ewing isn't finesse enough - well, he's a ballerina compared to Moses.
No - the numbers don't mean squat. His numbers could be going up for many reasons: Better conditioning, experience in the NBA, different play calls from head coach, true point guard now feeds the post, etc.... the fact that his numbers are going up does not necessarily reflect Patrick Ewing's performance. A great teacher would have had Yao playing at his current level 2 or 3 years ago. We would be seeing Yao increase his arsenal of shots with more. His finesse would go from good to great. That simply has not happened under the tutelage of Ewing. You mean Ewing, right? Not JVG. I've demonstrated the reasons why I think Ewing has done a poor job. You have not demonstrated reasons why you think he's done a good job. It's not so much that I have blind hatred, as that you have have blind man-love for Ewing.
Good thread. I'm not a big fan of Ewing but I do believe he is getting an unfair shake by some fans. Ewing in his prime wasn't just a big guy who muscled people out of the way but did have a pretty sweet baseline jumper and fadeaway shot. I agree though with many posters that Ewing might not have been the best coach for Yao because his style of play is very different than Yao. To Krosfyah's point that Ewing need not match Yao's playing style but just has to be a good teacher. That's true but there's a big problem as a player trying to coach someone who doesn't have your same skillset. For instance I coach martial arts at the University of MN and I used to compete a lot but have pretty much retired. I'm a shorter guy and relied on quickness, timing and flexibility when I competed but as a coach I'm dealing with people with all sorts of different tatlents such as I've got a few competitors who are very tall. The stuff that worked for me isn't going to work for them and me teaching them to try to play like I did will just hold them back so I've been trying to teach them to play like successful tall guys I've seen. The problem though is I've never played that way so its difficult for me to teach him a style that I don't do. So while Ewing might be able to tell Yao how to play a game that better suits his abilities it will be difficult for him to teach him that game since that's not what Ewing did as a player.
Here's my summary of your position: You are ASSUMING that because Ewing had a different style of play that he has nothing to offer Yao. It is easy to JUMP TO THAT CONCLUSION based on the fact that Yao's productivity hasn't increased as fast as YOU THINK it should. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You listed a boat load of reasons why Yao's #'s HAVE increased. Yet there is only ONE reason why his #'s havn't increased FASTER? I find it funny that ALL the reasons you listed for Yao's production increaases could be the very same reasons why Yao hasn't increased as FAST as you like. But let me toss in a few more for you: 1. culture changes 2. language problems 3. hearing problems 4. CBA -> NBA jump 5. No offseason rest 6. he reportedly got his ingrown toe-nail last season (how long has it been bothering him?). 7. Coaching changes There are a ton of reasons to suggest why Yao hasn't progressed as fast as we would like and it's ridiculous to pin ALL that on Ewing. Don't pin this on me. I never said Ewing has done a good job. I am simply saying that there are no legit reasons (other than your own assumptions) to beleive Ewing is doing a poor job. I've said on many occasions that I could care less if Ewing stays or goes. On an emotional level, I can't stand seeing Ewing sitting on OUR bench.
Oh, so now you agree with me that the numbers aren't a good benchmark of Ewing's job of coaching Yao?!?! Nice flip-flop! You accuse me of having "blind hatred" for Ewing, even though I've described my reasons. THEN you say: Ya know, for someone who doesn't actually choose a position on this issue, you sure do attack a lot.
Well, no offense but then that would suggest that teaching might not be your strong suit or at least you may have more to learn. You were a great martial artist but you have a difficult time translating that to teaching. Others who may be more inclined to be better teachers may not have as difficult a leap. Furthermore, Ewing isn't alone. He has the entire coaching staff there as well. For example, CD was also a big man's coach so I'm sure he's had input too. If Yao hasn't progressed well, it would be a failure of the entire coaching staff ...not soley Ewing's. I think it is silly to blame Ewing for all of Yao's troubles.
Again you put words in people's mouths. Nobody blamed Ewing for all of Yao's troubles. "Hi, I'm Krosfyah. My statements have no substance, but that's okay as long as I make a bunch of attacks at people."
Yup, I sorta agree ...from the opposite point of view. Not a flip-flop. You listed your reasons why he HAS improved and I listed my reasons why he hasn't improved FASTER. Isn't that the distinction you are making? Not that he HAS improved but that he hasn't improved FAST ENOUGH? My position is I have no reason to advocate that we fire Ewing which is exactly opposite of your position. So I don't see how this conversation is a farce. You haven't given me one concrete reason to change my mind. You have simply tossed out your own personal opinions that aren't based on anything tangible. If you gave me a quote from JVG, CD or other NBA experts that question Ewing's abilities as a coach, perhaps I could be swayed. Maybe if Yao improved prior to Ewing's arrival and then production decreased after Ewings arrived, then that is concrete. I don't know what to say. But without being a Rocket insider, it is really HARD to know Ewing's effectiveness. But to say that Yao hasn't picked up as many "moves" as you would like is vague, at best. That isn't a reason to fire somebody, IMO. Especially since Yao's biggest weakness prior to Ewing was lack of toughness ...not lack of moves... and even you admitted Yao HAS improved in that area
YOU are the attacker. You attacked Ewing saying he should get fired. If that isn't an attack, I don't know what is. Don't get mad at me. I get tired of senseless bashing. If folks are going to bash somebody, at least back it up with something legit or just admit you are aimlessly ranting. Otherwise, save the bandwidth.
Well, okay. But you said Ewing was ineffective as a teacher for Yao. And I don't know that to be true. It seems Yao has improved a lot, particularly this offseason after Yao got a lot of rest. EDIT: And had a chance to practice his moves. His jump-hook is much better this season.
circumstantial evidence is OK for me to use, but nobody else can use it and its invalid if they try ---droxford
I'm not an insider, but I watched Ewing stare at a mascot during the overtime game recently, he did not appear focussed on the game, but that does not mean anything. He could have been thinking about a play for Yao. I do not think it matters if Ewing goes to NY or not. He can leave and it will not hinder yao's development. Ewing had a nice jumper, but for a big strong player - sometimes he stayed away from the inside- anyone else recall how he would settle for a 15' jump shot?? Ewing was a good big man during his era- an era that included Hakeem Olajuwon, Robert Parrish, and David Robinson. He held his own just fine. Always Remember: "we make a lot of money, but we spend a lot of money" That was the gold club hero. Remember when Ewing wore the glasses with no lenses? Impressive!
That's funny cuz everytime I saw him play and he scored I'd be like, man that is sooooo luck. He'd make some awkward shots but they'd go in so I guess it's not luck. His game definitely wasn't pretty that's for sure.
Thanks for the kudos on my martial arts skills but from what people tell me I'm a far better teacher than I was a competitor. For one I never separated my shoulder while teaching. I will agree other's may be more inclined but generally its a hallmark of players that become coaches is that they teach what they know and worked for them. I'm one of those who will consciously try not to just teach what I know and encourage my players to study other competitors who fit there build better. I mean its sort of ridiculous as a 5'-7" 155 lb guy to expect someoner who's 6'-4" and 250 to be doing the same thing. The problem though being a 5'-7" guy its very difficult for me to demonstrate properly what a 6'-4" guy should be doing. For that matter since in sports a lot of things are learned from doing rather than from listening. So why I can tell my players to do something they pick up a lot from sparring with me. I inwardly groan at times when I notice them doing something wrong that always do that they picked up sparring or watching me spar. I don't know if Patrick Ewing can transcend this but I would guess that he is telling Yao to play like he did and not like Ralph Sampson. That's only a natural assumption as much as Roger Clemens teaches Petite and other pitchers to condition themselves to be durable power pitchers than finesse pitchers. You're absolutely correct and I agree with you that there isn't really a way of knowing whether Yao is better or worse under Ewing's tutelage and there is other staff who share that responsibility. That said Ewing was brought in specifically to improve Yao so for better or worse Yao is his student. If Yao is healthy and can't execute a fancy pass at the beginning of the game Ewing is the one who should be addressing that and not say the conditioning coach.
