While I get what you are saying (even though I don't agree), I want to reiterate that while you might interpret this passage to mean that, I could read it in context and get a totally different meaning out of it. Simply stated, I don't agree that that passage means there was a virgin birth and Jesus was born. You might and that is your right, but I just don't believe that. ------------------ Poopy!
Also Ali, Christianity has had many poor representatives. Those representatives have been the reason a lot of people dislike christianity. Science, on the other hand, has had the benefit of not being put under the lens of scrutiny. Science also has had a head start in that scientists have always sought to prove and disprove things and have devloped methods to do so. Early christians, instead, just believed in God. Theology is just now, I think, starting to catch up. But one thing you and I must always do is to judge for ourselves if something is real or not. If we choose, otherwise, to follow someone else's findings then we will not be able to make our own choices. I believe strongly that everyone knows that God is real. But we choose to suppress those feels because of whatever reason. ------------------ I am an invisible man. [This message has been edited by kbm (edited March 22, 2001).]
Yes, yes ali. I made that point myself. I just wanted to show you that each book of the bible does speak of a coming messiah. I think that messiah was Jesus. But, by contrast, the jews did not. This man was supposed to be their messiah but they did not see it that way. It is all up to interpretation. But I think, if you study the evidence, like many other jewish people have, most people come to conclusion that Jesus was the messsiah. ------------------ I am an invisible man.
I never said I didn't believe in God. I do, I'm just a non-practicing whatever. I don't really have a religion. I just also happen to believe in evolution being an osteology and physical anthropology student. As for most Jews agreeing in Jesus as the Messiah, I can't answer that being non-Jewish. However as soon as my boyfriend (JayZ) gets back I'm sure he will disagree with you. ------------------ Poopy!
Man, I have to stop making those declarative sentences. Of course, all jewish people don't believe that way. Bad, Kevin. It is also great to hear that you believe in (at least) a god. That is the first step. Also, don't be to sudden to join any church or religon. The funny thing is christians often feel their denomination is the only true religon. That is just not true. I think christianity is the right religon as opposed to other religons but I don't necessarily think baptists are the one denomination that knows God so to speak. Catholics (i prolly didn't spell that right) also have sound doctrine. It is a personal choice. I think, if your church preaches Jesus is the messiah, then that is a sound church. ------------------ I am an invisible man.
First, you can not take it word for word. As someone previously said, the existence of God is too vast for Man to understand. Try to imagine yourself as a programmer of a game. Lets say you are playing the game and you are on Tuesday and you realized you screwed up Monday.(Im not saying God screwed up) So you pull out your handy little hex editor and edit your mistake. Same thing with God. He has no past, he has no present, and he has no future. Now why I feel this is the 6th day: God defines 7 quite frequently. The bible says Man will reign with sin for 6000 years and then there will be 1000 years of peace. If you add up the 4000 years of BC and the 2000 years of AD, you get 6000. This is why there is all this armageddon/rapture blah blah ect ect. Now all Christians believe in mirecles, and they still happen today, which means God is still 'working'. Once there is this 1000 years of peace, God will not have to work. This will be his 7th day. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
Not such a good arguement, you are comparing god to a programer and man is his game. The relationship is much more personal than that. After all, god made man in his own image. How many programers do you know can say this game is me in the sense I give it power to do such as such. I trust it to do such and such. Listen god must be true to himself, which means if he makes a rule, he himself must abide by that same rule. Programers can just debug! Therefore, satan is (in terms of the bible) the god of this world. God gave that to adam. Adam gave it to Satan. That is why god had to redeem man. He had to follow the rules of this world and the power he gave to adam. ------------------ I am an invisible man. [This message has been edited by kbm (edited March 23, 2001).]
Ug! I can't believe that I read this whole thread! You know what the next step in evolution is? We're all gonna lose our hair! No! Really! Rocketman95 George Carlin? ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is. [This message has been edited by mc mark (edited March 23, 2001).]
Nope. I'll give you a hint. He's on television right now. ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
Is that Austin or Houston TV? Damn! The bible to me, is a good story. A way to look at life. Like Carlos Castaneda. Live for now, don't hurt anyone, live life right. Its nothing more than a parable! I was a hard core southern Baptist for 18 years of life. Even thought about the ministry. I've read the bible. It’s a good story. Just like the Koran, Torah, Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is. [This message has been edited by mc mark (edited March 23, 2001).]
You know the bible was not written in English, it's been translated of course. If you know anything about languages, you know how much is lost in translating even one word much less thousands of words. Furthermore, science is it's OWN scrutiny. Science relies on evidence and proof to come to conclusions. Religion relies on completely subjective faith. Your interpretation of the bible is also completely subjective. One passage can completely contradict the next passage often times and even that requires two people to agree on the meaning of passages which is quite a task in itself. I find it amazing that people prefer to believe in mythology rather than science. The Romans, Greeks, and many other civilizations have at one time believed that there were gods for the sun, the ocean, the earth, etc. What makes your belief in god any different? Your faith is no stronger or more important than the faiths of millions who came before you yet it's your faith that is right and just. Sorry that just doesn't jive with reality. BTW, Buddhism requires no belief in a god. ------------------ Why is Gonzaga always given a double digit seed? Just move them to the Sweet 16 where they belong and let them play from there.
mc mark, national cable until 1:00 am, CST. ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
My thoughts exactly mc mark. ------------------ Why is Gonzaga always given a double digit seed? Just move them to the Sweet 16 where they belong and let them play from there.
Timing, I forgot to tell you amen! ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
Oh Ali, I just saw your question about light skin/ dark skin, etc ... I wanted to say this before but I thought it might be too much, but here it goes. In the bible, genesis chapter 11, there is the tower of babel story. To make a long story short, man was working on a tower to reach heaven. God saw this and reasoned that nothing would be impossible with man unless he confounded man's language and scattered them across the earth, which he did. Here is my explaination: different parts of the world have different climates. Man adapted to those climates. Asian people, for example, have slanted eyes because where they live the sun is very close. This adaptation to the environment is why I believe in evolution. ------------------ I am an invisible man.
Alright! You made me turn on the TV and I didn't find it. Give it up RM95! Man! after 9 hours of sitting in front of a computer and 6 hours of being at the theater, I'm fried! nite gents ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
Jon Stewart. Have a great weekend everyone!! ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
kbm: I admire your conviction to your beliefs. I've read the Bible several times and the Bagavad Gita, some of the Koran, parts of the Kabaalah (man, my spelling is getting a workout ), much of the Teachings of Buddha, several books of Taoist belief and numerous other religious and spiritual texts. The Bible is a magnificent work of literature. It is really quite incredible. However, let me first point out that many of the translations we read today (the Living Bible, the King James Version, etc.) are terribly flawed simply because their translations were not very good. Most everyone who translated the Bible from Greek and Hebrew to Latin (or German in the case of Martin Luther) used formal dialects. At the University of Texas, I took a fascinating course on the Life and Teachings of Jesus. It focused on the gospels and Romans in the New Testament. My professor, a wonderful minister, broke down some of the barriers language created for translators. For one thing, Jesus lived among commoners. He spoke, for lack of a better word, slang. His friends were prostitutes, fishermen and peasants - not exactly educated folks. To make a rudimentary comparison, it would be like one of us trying to read Shakespeare to an uneducated, disinterested day laborer. Not only would it be difficult for them to comprehend, some of the words would simply not be in their vocabulary. Take the word "cool." This was an example my professor used. He said, "What would you think if someone said, 'That guy is cool.'?" To us, that obviously meant he was in style or popular. No one said that it meant he needed a jacket because it was chilly outside. The point is that Jesus used many words similar to "cool" but a word like that would've been translated as "cold" because the translators didn't fully understand the connotation of the slang term and simply translated it literally. In addition, certain phrases like "Kingdom of Heaven" have been translated much differently in recent years to things like "temple of the mind" and "palace of your heart." Part of that is the result of the discovery of a number of texts in Egypt dated to the time of Jesus called the Gnostic Gospels. The Gospel of Thomas (that's doubting Thomas the disciple) is believed to have been written much closer to the time of Jesus. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, for example, were written anywhere from 75 to 125 years after the death of Jesus and were based on oral accounts passed down. As we all know, those can change drastically over time which is why each of the gospels seem so different. Thomas' was written only about 20 years after Jesus' death making it conceivable that Thomas himself either wrote or dictated it. He was also one of the most educated of the disciples making this theory much more plausible. Also, there are many instances in the teachings of Jesus where he said things that were purposefully cryptic as a way to get people to think. Saying things like "Even the least of those among you can do all that I have done and even greater things," was a startling statement to come from someone considered God in flesh. How could we possibly do greater things than the Son of God? Like the great Buddhist kohn's (riddles designed to get you thinking - the most used example is "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"), Jesus used contradictions to jar people out of their static ways of thinking. All great spiritual leaders have done that whether it be Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed or Ghandi. Furthermore, there is a great deal of evidence to suggest that Jesus studied other religions during the "missing years" - the time between his teenage encounter with Pharisees in the temple and the beginning of his ministry. Two of his parables, the Parable of the Talents and the Prodigal Son, were actually stories told by Buddha 500 years before Jesus was even born. Additionally, Jesus is described as sitting with his legs folded and his hands and eyes open and heavenward when he prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane. This is quite contrary to his Jewish faith, which taught followers to pray kneeling with hands folded and eyes closed looking down in reverence. The position Jesus used was a lotus position used both by Buddhists in meditation and by Hindus in prayer. It was common for men like Jesus to leave their homes as young men and go on spiritual quests for knowledge. With Judea's proximity to the near east, it is rather likely he was exposed to different cultures and eastern religions formed hundreds of years before Christianity. None of this is said to dissuade you from your interest in Christianity. In fact, it is intended to help you better understand everything that goes into it. Though I am not a Christian, I consider Jesus closest to my heart in terms of teachers with my beliefs falling closer to Buddhism. I would highly recommend you taking a look at the writings of Josephus. He was a scribe for the Roman Empire assigned to follow Jesus and chronicle his every move. His secular writings are considered an accurate journalistic (if decidedly biased) account of the ministry of Jesus when he returned to Jerusalem. It is interesting reading and really helps to understand Jesus' place in history as not just a spiritual leader but a true social outcast and political rebel. He was, after all, crucified because of his inflamatory speeches. He was, for all intents and purposes, a political prisoner of both the Romans and the Jews. What he said was dangerous because it educated the Gentiles (the commoners of the day) which terrified those in power. By the way, Buddhism never believed in the "death of God." Buddhists believe that God never really existed in the way that mono-theistic religions like Christianity or Judism portrayed him/her. They believe God is more of a spiritual presence of which we are all a part. Through our lives on earth, we learn lessons that lead us back to union with that presence. All of this is, of course, just food for thought. As for evolution, I personally don't care how it happened. I am far more concerned with where we are now than I am with where we came from especially something so distant in the past. Carry on. I'm enjoying the discussion. ------------------ "I swallowed a lot of agression...along with a lot of pizzas."
Timing, If this statement is refering to my posts, I think you need to read what I said again. I acually say that my interpretation is just that an interpretation. I also praised science for the methods it used to show prove, even going so far to say that theology is just now trying to catch up. I also said that I believe in a type of evolution, so doesn't that mean I believe in science somewhat. My faith is my faith. All I have tried to do is point out the unique features of christianity over other religions, which is not made up. Also, yes faith is the main part of believing in god, but I wouldn't say that there is no prove that my god is not real. In fact, the bible is now used as a historical document. ------------------ I am an invisible man.
Jeff, Read my posts. I have said before that there are mistakes in the bible. I think that people often use this to disprove the bible, fine. You have the right to believe what you want. I would never try to take that from you. Jeff, I am asian/european, but I look white. However, against my mother's approval, I joined an all black church. I say that to say this: I did not learn about God from my family, I found him on my own. I made my own choice. If you have done the same, great. I salute you. ------------------ I am an invisible man.
