Evidence that Hakeem and Akeem whipped Jordan's Bulls

Like this **** matters now?

 

I did mean the media as a whole, not particularly you.

I won't speak for tinman but there are plenty who argue similar points. It is REACTIONARY. So, to you it might seem like a bunch of crazy baseless banter but it is really just a reaction to years of disrespectful commentary.

We're wrong for fighting but they threw the first punch. I know, not you, but this is not just an internet-Clutchfans debate. So don't expect a reaction to just you, its a reaction to years of verbal asterisks.

 

Oh, I understand.

Just scroll back and look at when I entered this thread. I was repeatedly called out, and called a "p***y" at one point.

I could care less about e-smack, but I do think there are those that LOOK for the argument, and that seems to be the case with some here.

and tinfoil-

Scroll back a few and read my post regarding my early Rockets memories, especially against the Lakers in the WCF. If you read your own thread, you would see I most certainly did NOT dislike the early ROX teams.

Again:

Disagree with you= Rox hater/gatorade drinker/Stern and Nike swinger

 

WILT CHAMBERLAIN would have eaten dreams lunch............

Evidence 100 pt game.

 

That argument is pointless. Jordan's Bulls won more championships. So? He had consistently better teams, no one will argue that.

The point of this thread was not to say that we absolutely would have beaten teh Bulls, there is of course no way to know that. The point was to remove the arguement that the Rockets championships in those 2 years were any less valid because Jordan wasn't there.

The point is that in the middle of their primes from the late 80s to the early 90s the Rockets generally dominated the Bulls.

You do have a good point that in the two years the Rockets won a championship the Bulls were 2-2 against the Rockets. However that does not negate the fact that the Rockets dominated the season series for years before that.

This thread has become muddled in name calling and misunderstanding. The only point is that the idea that people think less of our championships is completely ignorant. We beat the teams they let us beat, and it just so happens that we were also dominant against the Bulls in that early 90s late 80s era. Nothing you can say can negate that fact.

Oh, and if you want to talk point differential, we won the battle in those 2 championships years by about +8 or so. 4 games is a small sample though. We present a much larger body of work.

 

I have stated many times that there is no point in trying to invalidate the Rockets two titles. This carried over from the Howard/Yao thread, and me saying that the logic they were using to validate Yao is akin to the logic invalidating the Rockets titles.

Tinfoil is the guy who dragged me here, and proceeded to pound his e-chest at his super duper flawless argument that the Rockets were better than the Bulls.

I merely used his own logic to pound the other side of the debate. I keep repeating the fact that I am a fan of the Rockets, and have zero problems with their titles. But I think there's a lot of "title envy" or some sort of complex going on here.....which as a Kings fan, I understand.

 

nice way to open another can of worms. if hakeem was in wilt's time he wouldve pulled out consistant triple doubles and 100 point games.

 

Actually, no, you didnt use his logic. He provides a clear assertion and backs it up with relevant facts.

You tried to use backwards logic supported by irrelevant data. You tried to say that whenever Jordan played a full season, he won a title. Sorry bud, but championships are won in the postseason. His regular season performance is irrelevant. Why dont you look at his postseason numbers for 1995? Tell me how they compare to the postseason numbers from his championship years.

There really is no debate. Basketball is all about matchups, and the Bulls didn't match up well against the Rockets. Thats not an opinion. Thats a fact. Just like the Rockets didnt match up well against the Sonics.

 

Way to be selective. You are using semantics to invalidate my points, and then reversing course to validate your own.

No. I said that whenever the Rockets won a championship, Jordan did not play a full season. Do you dispute that fact? That isnt an opinion, its a fact...

It is asinine for you to deduce that, based on the fact that if nothing else, I have proven the ability to google and cut and paste. Of Michael Jordan's entire career, he failed to win a title in all but 6 of his seasons.

I made this bigger so that it would sink in more. Now you are flat out embarassing yourself, but I want to thank you personally for helping me out in this thread.

You said it all right there. Its the core of my argument. Thank you! Tinfoil, this guy is a believer!!!

Dang. Let me mark the time and date. The debate is over. You called it. I guess the rest of the world is on drugs.

No one has ever (at least not me) said that the Rockets didnt match up well with the Bulls. All I said is that they failed to win a title when MJ played a full season. That is a fact. There really is no debate. And when your friend Tinfoil, with all his numbers and googling, narrowed the debate all the way down to early nineties, non-pajama uniforms, etc....the Rockets went .500 against the MJ-less Bulls in their two title years. That's a pretty damning fact.

In the years before, when they did better than .500 during the season against the Bulls, they couldnt even make the Finals. The Bulls took care of business and got there, but there were no Rockets to be found....SIX TIMES.

All I've used is facts. 99% of what I've been arguing against is Fact with misguided opinion and interpretation behind it.

You go ahead and keep insulting my logic and trying to invalidate the other side of the point, I'll continue to embarass you like I did with your above quote.

Tinfoil, at this point if you would like to sign over ownership of this thread, I'll be happy to take it. I will also be happy to allow you to visit whenever, and keep your chair warm. I promise not to redecorate.

 

Basketball is about matchups. The Rockets matched up very well with the Bulls.

I don't know if the Rockets would have beaten the Bulls. I suspect they would have during their two championship years and I think they stood a very good chance with the Rodman Bulls based on what happened with the San Antonio series where Dream not only embarrassed Robinson but also took Rodman completely out of the game mentally...



People always remember the Robinson undressing, but forget how Olajuwon also took Rodman to the woodshed.

The one thing I do know is that as Rockets fans, we got to see the most talented and perhaps the greatest big man of all time play and we are the one NBA franchise that does not regret not drafting Jordan.



(Though part of me wants to go back in time and make that rumored trade with Portland.)

 

the celtics have not won a ring when Yao has played a full season.

 

This discussion is quite interesting honestly. And since I have plenty of time on my hands at the moment, I decided to do some research. I compiled the list of final scores of Rox vs. Bulls head-to-head matchups starting from Olajuwon's/Jordan's rookie years up to 1998. I got these from basketball-reference.com.

Tue, Dec 18, 1984 @ Chicago Bulls W 104 96
Tue, Mar 19, 1985 Chicago Bulls W 106 100

Sat, Dec 7, 1985 Chicago Bulls W 116 104
Sat, Feb 1, 1986 @ Chicago Bulls L 122 132

Thu, Jan 15, 1987 @ Chicago Bulls W 107 96
Mon, Mar 16, 1987 Chicago Bulls W 97 96

Sat, Nov 28, 1987 Chicago Bulls L 86 98
Sat, Dec 12, 1987 @ Chicago Bulls L 103 112

Fri, Feb 3, 1989 Chicago Bulls W 105 98
Fri, Feb 24, 1989 @ Chicago Bulls L 97 106

Thu, Feb 1, 1990 Chicago Bulls W 139 112
Mon, Feb 19, 1990 @ Chicago Bulls L 102 107

Thu, Jan 3, 1991 Chicago Bulls W 114 92
Mon, Mar 25, 1991 @ Chicago Bulls W 100 90

Sat, Jan 25, 1992 @ Chicago Bulls L 100 114
Thu, Jan 30, 1992 Chicago Bulls W 105 102

Fri, Dec 11, 1992 @ Chicago Bulls W 110 96
Thu, Jan 28, 1993 Chicago Bulls W 94 83

Tue, Nov 23, 1993 Chicago Bulls W 100 93
Sat, Jan 15, 1994 @ Chicago Bulls L 76 82

Thu, Nov 17, 1994 Chicago Bulls W 106 83
Sun, Jan 22, 1995 @ Chicago Bulls L 81 100

84/85 – 94/95 Record: 14-8 (63.63 winning %)

Post "Glory Years":
Wed, Jan 3, 1996 @ Chicago Bulls L 86 100
Tue, Jan 30, 1996 Chicago Bulls L 87 98

Sat, Jan 11, 1997 @ Chicago Bulls L 86 110
Sun, Jan 19, 1997 Chicago Bulls W 102 86

Sun, Jan 18, 1998 @ Chicago Bulls L 100 106
Sun, Apr 5, 1998 Chicago Bulls L 94 109

I also heard so much about Maxwell "shutting down" Jordan. But because I have never seen these games, I can't fully attest to this being fact. So I did research on it by looking up just Jordan's field goal percentage average for the season and compared it with the percentage against the Rox. I hope this "table" is readable. I couldn't find the stats for 84/85 and 85/86.

MJ FG%
Year Avg. vs.Rox

86/87 .482 .451


87/88 .535 .560


88/89 .538 .476


89/90 .526 .482


90/91 .539 .596


92/93 . 519 .396


93/94 .495 .460
Vernon Maxwell on Rockets (89/90 - 94/95)

Jordan for some reason shot very poorly in the 92/93 season against the Rox. And out these 7 seasons, Jordan only shot better against the Rox in 2 of the years. So from these years, Jordan generally "had trouble" against the Rockets. But again I'm just looking at the field goal percentage, and I didn't bother looking at other stats (too much copying and pasting).

So here are some general concrete facts here. I'll let you guys dissect it up.

 

Wow. Your backtrack is almost complete.

There's the start of this thread. You wrote it. I think your forgot to add "during the regular season"....I guess that was an accident, because your statement sure made it sound like an overall absolute.

I think you meant to add "Hakeem beat him 8 of 16 times in the regular season."

I guess you forgot that too.

I dont even understand this, but I wanted to quote it. I take it English is not your native tongue. For that, I say congratulations on learning a new language, that is quite an accomplishment. But I cant understand what you said above.

Except they went 8-8 (or 2-2 in title years or however you want to cut it).
If I remember my history, Ike vs Tina was pretty one sided, in which Rockets vs Bulls was pretty even (except 6-2 in titles).

You mean you take SELECTED facts, and then turn it into speculation.

Didnt you start this entire thread because of that? If you truly believe it, then why do you need to prove it to everyone? Why do you continually state in this thread that you want to prove the anti-rockets slant by non-rockets fans?? Is it because you are some low esteem high school girl?

I also love certain posters in this thread patting each other on the back and talking about being "objective", and how Jordan was "scared" of the Rockets.

I'm surprised no one has said he took those two years off to avoid playing Houston....

 

And when the Celtics did win it, Jordan wasn't there.

 

Haha i love it. This is like a main event match. Tinman has been cleaning house in the early rounds but carmichael dave came into the later rounds throwing everything he can. Flurries, haymakers and a few low blows. Looks like this one will go the full 15 rounds unless one of these fighters can land a knockout blow. At this rate, its anyone's match to win! Its the Throwdown In H-Town, Straight Shootin' in Houston, ClutchFights Under the E-Lights, Wreckless in Texas, From H-Town to Sac-Town, This is The Clutchfans Showdown.

 

jordan took those two years off to avoid playing houston.