Every Single Commanding Officer of Kerry Says He is UNFIT TO LEAD

First time for everything.

The vast majority of Americans now consider the Viet Nam War to have been a mistake. About half of Americans now feel the same about Iraq. You're right to characterize early dissenters against either of these wars as far left. You're wrong to think that characterization holds over time. We'll see how it plays out. Kerry could lose, sure. But if he does it won't be because he opposed a war that the vast majority of the country now cites as one of the biggest mistakes the country's ever made.

 

But even if you accept that Kerry is an extremist, which I think is silly, you're then left with an election with two extemists...lol...and the Green Party.

 

You're wrong to think I made that critical error, because I didn't. I'd agree with most of your first paragraph with one caveat: Blanket support of the troops, regardless of one's feelings about the war they're fighting in, was not in evidence during the Viet Nam War. In fact, it was the bad effects of those protests on vets that engendered this relatively new "Oppose the War/Support the Troops" position. In fact, I think it was a mistake for protesters back then to lump in the troops who were among the great victims of that war, but I have the benefit of hindsight. Kerry does too and has expressed regret for some of his more heated comments back then. The fact remains that the protests back then helped to bring to an end a very wrong war. Kerry was a soldier in the war and also a soldier against the war. He has my gratitude and respect for both.

I also agree with you that the bottom line is imagery. That's why Bush can dress up in a flight suit and defray most of the criticism of his virtual draft dodging in a war he apparently supported. It's one of the things that makes me most disappointed in the American electorate. One guy opposes the war but fights in it anyway, the other supports it but uses family connections to stay safe at home but imagery trumps all that. It really is a shame.

 

In what dimension does a former cocaine snorting alcoholic, responsibility shirking, c student, and failed businessman have better leadership qualities than somebody like Kerry? Everybody knows this is political.

 

I protested against the Viet Nam war "back in the day", as I've mentioned before, and I want to point out that many protesters (including me) supported the troops. Heck, I had friends who were over there. I know that the more radical protesters probably got more press, although they were just one faction of what became a gigantic movement. And Kerry was far from the only veteran protesting. He just had a higher profile.

My friends came back... we went skinny-dipping again on Lake Travis and listened to music together. They got back into the rhythms of life as best they could. And they thought we were crazy to have gone there the way we did. None of them were officers. Just draftees who did the best they could. I guess I'm just repeating the obvious. It was strange days.

 

And that's the key.

Not a religious sense, but that your point is subjective, and by most objective standards, Kerry has a lot more of a C.V. when it comes to strong leadership than Bush. If their records were exactly the same, but Bush was a Dem and Kerry a Republican, you'd be all over their records like there was no tommorrow, citing them as incontrovertable proof...and I think you know it.

 

We're trying to be fair to Bush.

 

Regarding the recent spate of "Dubya Sucks!" and "No, Kerry Sucks!" threads, I would like to offer my professional political evaluation:

Kerry does suck.

But Bush sucks way more.


If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch cartoons now.

 

This is a deft trick, but transparent BS just the same. You are attempting to smear anyone who publicly opposes a war (Vietnam, Iraq I, Iraq II, whatever) with the empty accusation that they do not "support the troops," or perhaps that they are "unpatriotic" or they are "aiding the enemy." All nonsense. In reality what you are trying to do is stifle opposition.

Many reasonable people oppose the ongoing effort in Iraq, and (I'm sure you'll find this difficult to believe) many of these reasonable people's opposition stems from something other than politics. It becomes a moral imperative to protest publicly, and I don't much care to allow people like you to sit behind a keyboard and freely impugn what is at root a thoroughly patriotic activity.

 

First, it is MOST relevant who performed 'better' during that period since that is the entire issue. One's character or prior acts may be flawed, but which of our two choices is most flawed?

Second, how do you defend against an argument that has no substance? These are only opinions. If they would like to present something concrete ...

 

Well we could go there, but it wouldn't help Bush at all. Most of the world thinks we're more of a threat to world peace than anyone else ... great accomplishment.

And don't try to argue that this won't come back to bite us in the future. I won't buy it.

 

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge
Cohen, this isn't a comparison of Bush and Forbes Kerry's records of service.

But it is. That's the ultimate issue.


This is an insight into the character of Forbes Kerry.

How so? This is some other people's opinions of Kerry. Until they provide concrete examples of his 'character', it is nothing more than provocative statements.

This is a vivid description of the man's leadership abilities.

It could also be a vivid example of the divisions due to the Vietnam war. W/o more info, no conclusions can be drawn from their opinions.

We have seen the steady hand of Bush in action, and the people agree that he is a good leader.

We have seen him screw-up our international standing. We have seen his administration childishly minimize UN involvement in post-war Iraq which is probably costing US lives and threatens the stability of any new Iraqi government. Overall, he has allowed some wacko neo-cons to influence his administration, heavily.


Forbes Kerry has made is 'heroism' in Vietnam the centerpiece of his campaign. These military veterans who served alongside him think that he is unfit to lead. This is very damaging to Forbes Kerry.

Could be damaging. Guess we'll see as more information becomes available, if ever.

 

Wow, CNS News!?!? A collaboration of CBS & CNN? Or an outfit run out of religious rightwing busybody L. Brent Bozell's basement.....did somebody's WSJ online subscription lapse?

 

Bold words for a poster whose middle name is so small it doesn't even merit a space.

 

I find it curious that every single commanding officer of Kerry at the time of his service gave him excellant reviews.

Did someone say "service?"

 

All I know is that Bush probably would have won in a landslide if we focused on Afghanastan, international terrorism, International policing efforts, Islamic terrorism in Asia and Africa, and training those countries to fight against terrorism while also focusing on our economy at home...and had not invaded Iraq.

That being said, he removed a cancer from the world forever and now we have to painfully see it through until the end and we can move out of Iraq with some peace and prosperity for its people.

One thing I have noticed in my short time following politics. Nothing is ever quite as bad and nothing is ever quite as good as people from both sides would have you believe.

I will probably vote for Bush since his econimic policies favor my views...and I think that we don't need a leader change right now that could possibly make the situation worse.

Kerry has already said that we need to see Iraq through until the end, so he's not really different on that point...and Bush wants to hand over power and restore peace as fast as possible, so while Kerry tries to paint himself as totally different from Bush, they are actually pretty close on this point...so Iraq is kind of a moot point for Bush Vs. Kerry.

 

They got back into the rhythms of life as best they could. And they thought we were crazy to have gone there the way we did. None of them were officers. Just draftees who did the best they could.

Good to have another actual recollection from that time. That is how I remember it. A great many veterans knew that they had been had and fought in a stupid war. I lived in St.Louis and also in Madison, Wisconsin, which was a hotbed of anti-war activity. Eveyone realized that the veterans were just poor guys who were drafted mostly against their will. Very few veterans O met were still for the war after having been there.

I went to college with many of them. They certainly didn't get upset because some of us protested; they did, too. This whole veteran's being spit on thing was extraordinarily rare maybe it happened once in the whole country, but it was very useful in firing up the right wingers and apparently their children as we see on this bbs.


Bush can't run on his accomplishments so he must try to fire up his base by appealing to fear, fear of 9/11, fear of "brown people" as he called Iraqis in his press conference, fear of anti-war protestors etc. . Bush and his shills like TJ are ruthless, so Kerry must take them on. They'll keep at it over and over. You can't play nice or cuatious like Gore did.