It is a fact. Just like it's a fact that if you jump off a building you will fall. If you expect to float, then yes you are an idiot.
wait...it is??? it's not our best guess??? it's not a theory?? it's fact?? do the rest of you see what i mean now????
A theory is a best guess (with converging lines of evidence supporting it). Evolution is also a fact. It happens. We observe it happening, and we have evidence that it's been happening for a long time. No different than gravity.
no. Evolution has been factually observed. On a timescale beyond our ability to replicate and test, it is a theory.
right..we've observed micro evolution, correct?? no issue there. my understanding is we're talking about macro evolution....and my understanding is we haven't observed that in a way that we can call fact....correct??? rhad, feel free to answer this one, too.
If microevolution, that populations evolve by variation and natural selection, is a fact, what prevents those adaptations from accumulating on a "macro" scale?
Let's go with definition 2 at dictionary.com: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact 2. something known to exist or to have happened
What an odd interpretation and oddly snide remark at the end. This is a continuum of transitional forms available for study right here, right now. There is a smooth shift from one divergent species to the next. Is this not what you're asking for in other posts? Isn't this exactly one of the things natural selection predicts? Do you think a switch is flipped and *BOOM!* new species? If so, then you might wish to brush up on your basic understanding of the theory a bit. Why do you think this is suited for extinction study, of all things? What is going extinct? Also, why did you ignore/snip the other parts of my post asking for the statistical analysis and the suggestion of study of Tiktalik and Shubin's book? I will even send you a copy of the book if you promise to read it. He's a paleontologist and addresses some of your concerns with the fossil record. Seriously, PM me an address and I'll get the book to you tomorrow via Amazon.
Internet conversations tend to break down on semantics. I'm not sure what we're arguing anymore, frankly. Am I defining the word "fact" now?? Or "knowledge?" this has been a really respectful discussion, scola, and i appreciate that.
The semantics are important in this case because you are challenging the representation of evolution as "fact". To me, evolution is a fact not only because it is directly observed, but also because we can deduce to a very high degree of certainty that it is responsible for the various life forms that exist today. Well, thanks! I appreciate your patience, even when I lose mine.
I'm with you that fact is something directly observed. But if I told you the existence of God was fact because I deduced it, you'd say I'm a loonie (which I probably am, anyway, but still). That's the very backbone of the whole Intelligent Design movement....we see massive complexity that defies explanation without a creator, so we infer a creator in to that. I don't want that taught in public schools, either. I think if you're left to deduce it...it's not a FACT from a scientific standpoint. When scientists start throwing around the word "fact" I think it needs to carry more weight with it than, "this is our best guess/deduction/etc".
There is a massive amount of evidence, from divergent areas of study, for evolution. It is not merely a best guess. It is a best guess + tons of evidence + no contradicting evidence. We're not saying, "Look at all these various species that have stuff in common--must be evolution." More like, "Look at all these various species that have stuff in common--wonder if it's evolution?" <lots of testing> "Wow! All this evidence supports our hypothesis! It is highly likely that evolution is responsible for these wonderous lifeforms."
If I can take MadMax's side for a moment. Semantics are important and while everything you state is correct that still doesn't make Evolution a fact as there still is a margin of doubt for another possible explanation.
So what would be an example of something for which there is no margin of doubt? Are only tautologies facts?
