Casey, I am a Christian, I believe in God, I believe in a supernatural creation without regard to any proof of which I am unable to provide anything within human reason. I do not support Intelligent Design as a scientific model of origins simply because I think that has the same problems evolution has too much missing data to substantiate it. I have faith alone to go on and the words of Jesus in the bible. What I do question is the obsessive crush on evolution that science and education hold as if it's pretty buttoned down and clean. It is almost arrogant what I have read in textbooks (I used to have a bad habit of borrowing science books from kids in church to see what was taught on origins) on how sure we are how life began. The only diety I found was the god of 'billions of years' that seemed to make everything all right. I for one think that a Christian should admit I don't know where God came from and I have no clue how special creation took place, just as I think scientists should say we have no clue on how life originated or where matter originated or how simple chemicals might have formed complex reaction randomly in ordered processes that continually and successfully led to very complex life. I would not be ashamed to say that if I was a scientist except for the stupid self righteous religious people that might stand up and try to shove an 'I WAS RIGHT' in my face. If that is what science fears I understand.
I don't understand what exactly you have a problem with as "science" is pretty broad. Elements come together all the time to make more complex molecules, which interact with other complex molecules. I don't understand why that seems to be the breakdown of agreement.
Casey do you really think the kind of reactions you are talking about are increasing in complexity and justification for the origin of life? I would have liked to have witnessed the first random occurance of RNA or DNA formation on to the first cell on to the first organism... but which elements coming together are you speaking of that leads to that process? I know, billions of years. Good answer. I think it is very reasonable to question this, you don't need to be a Jesus Freak to question that, I think an atheist has the responsibility to scratch his head on that scenario. That's all. I'm not even trying to prove it didn't happen THAT way, I can't. But it worth a head scratch for any logical thinker IMHO.
In what way would it contradict your beliefs? Do you seriously think God would write details in the bible about how he created life? Using words no one knew?
I know you're not talking to me....but absolutely not! I do not believe Genesis is a literal or detailed account of creation. I don't believe that's its intent. I don't believe its structure indicates that it ever was intended to be that. I think it's entirely possible it happened exactly as you're suggesting. And I believe God is the spark behind it all.
I already stated I don't understand creation. I like the words of Jesus on the subject they have value to me. But if macro evolution actually happened I would assume alot of my questions would eventually get answered. I certainly can't buy into it just because of the bible. I really find alot of problems with the size and scope of the theory based upon the limited evidence. The best evidence to me is dating methods. But as far as speciation, bio chemistry, and origins of life I personally find the macro theory of evolution to be a bust. It's just an opinion. I have in my past and I am sure I could again just drink the kool aid (albiet prepared by some brilliant scientists) and believe in evolution- but don't you think most science assumes evolution and works back- do you really think Darwin had good science? My faith is separate from understanding creation or evolution. I think God gave a message in the bible that every person needed. It isn't a science text, but a spiritual text. I read the bible to know, love and trust God more and to understand relationships. Every problem in the world today can be boiled down to a relationship issue.
When did I say I had a problem with what you said? The only question I had was whether we knew HOW the inanimate became animate. I sought out more than your answer to that question. It seems you've had a problem with what I've said...but I'm not arguing that all that you've said isn't possible. I'm also not arguing that it couldn't have happened another way.
you mean the limited evidence that you understand? It seems the general theme from you and Max is that this is a purely scientific discussion, but that just is not true with you guys. Why do you continue to think that evolution and God cannot be part of the same system. Evolution relies on time, space, matter, energy.......
