Europe is Doing Better With the Outsourcing Problem

Didn't the story also talk about income and inflation, how is that not related?

 

That's only one-month data and you used it in a context where wages in the last 5 years were debated? Plus, didn't you see the spending was largely due to the summer auto sales, when manufactucters and dealers are offering bigger than usual incentives to get rid of year-old vehicles and get new models in their inventories?

 

You only came across that way a little bit and I did not take it that way since you don't have a history of that. No worries.

I have not had a job that gave raises due to performance. I wish I did (especially if it were in the training world) since I feel very confident that my performance would merit substantial increases.

The market for IT workers in Houston has turned up a bit in the past 6-12 months, but since 2001, I have seen my friends who work in IT scrambling for any work they could find and as such have felt lucky just to have a job. Thankfully, the job I have is with a community college and I have taken the opportunity to improve my education and acquire degrees that will, hopefully, translate into a better job that will compensate me enough that I can afford to get my MBA or PhD (or better yet, pay for that education for me).

 

Conversely - illegal immigration advocates should also have no qualms about outsourcing.

 

Per wnes' request from the other thread, to which I will attempt this

The one-month data I was referring to was just an indicator on the current US economy, of course its related. You know our economy is cyclical, 5 years ago we were at the end of a "over heating" phase, then we went into a down phase (recession). Over the past few years, we are slowly improving, and those monthly data points are indicators of that.

This is not even a republican/democrat issue, its a debate about the US system vs European. And I believe we have the better system, the labor protection laws in Europe are not good for corporations' long term viability, especially when you have to compete globally. Companies (private sector) are built to bring return for the share holders, not employ certain number of people, although a successful company is more likely to produce jobs.

And 5% unemployment rate is better than 10%, period.

 

I sure agree the economy is on the rise -- just don't know how strong it will continue to be and how long it will sustain. On the other hand, you are still neglecting the facts that consumer debts and foreclosures are also at all time high, so are health care costs (you especially need to realize that, on average, the rate of health care cost increase far exceeds that of any income increases).

 

I am not exactly sure how all this outsourcing is going to turn out for the US or even the China/India. In the end, the standard of living could rise in the East and fall in the West, or it could very well turn out to be a nice symbiotic relationship that helps out both sides.

But I do know that there will always be a market for fine European goods. Whether it is Scotch/Bordeaux, German autos, Italian shoes, French Brie, Danish furniture, Swedish steel, Swiss rollercoasters, Belgian fabric, Dutch hydro technology, or what have you. There always exists a market for the best and people will always be willing to pay for the best. As Oskar Schindler says, "good things cost money." And lets face it, the quality of Western European goods for the most part surpasses that of American made goods. Mediocre goods and mediocre skills can be commoditized and outsourced to far off lands. Fine Austrian crystal cannot be blown in the sweathouses of Cambodia.

Another difference I note b/t Europe and the States is the overall quality of life. IMO, far too often a country's success and how well it is doing is automatically equated with per capita GDP's and economic growth and productivity and so on. I do not necessarily believe in such measures. It would take paragraphs upon paragraphs to fully explain all the quality of life differences I notice b/t the EU and the US.....but having lived in both, I will just say that I generally agree with the following rankings and criteria from Mercer Consulting:

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1000846.shtml

You'll notice, not even one US city in the top 20.

 

There's a lot you don't know about the economy - for starters, how to measure it.

 

I've been to Europe too. The US is definitely a richer country. Bottom line is, Americans work harder than Europeans and are more productive per man-hour. If someone can point out a study that claims the contrary - please post it. On the whole, the average American has a nicer tv, car, more living space, better food, et. al., than the average European.

Also - your opinion that Asians are less capable than Europeans smacks a little of racism. I'm sure you once thought that the Japanese could never, ever make a good car.

Europeans make the highest quality products?

 

My problem is with the thread title. Who ever said that outsourcing was a "problem?"

Consumers win, Companies Win, Shareholders Win.

You can't lose!!

 

Better food?

Enjoy your McDonald's, bro. And your supersize TV!

Also no, I still don't think the Japanese have made a good car to date. Certainly not one I would pay for. That doesn't make me a racist though. I think there are many other products that they do make of exceptional quality - 'Hoya' brand crystal, for instance, which often rivals the Austrian producers mentioned in my previous post. Japanese steel is also very good, falling behind only that of Sweden and Germany. I'm not saying the Japanese will never be able to make a better car than the Euros, just that they haven't yet.

Would you like an order fries along with that, Sir?

 

What places in Europe did you visit?

 

Yeah . The only food I can find in the US are fast food joints. And the Japanese don't make good cars.

Why do Americans buy so many Japanese imports? I don't get it. If the Passat or bug were so much better (and made by white people for that matter)- it would seem like a no-brainer. And the average American can't afford a Benz or BMW or sporty italian.

 

London, Amsterdam, Greece, Spain. I just don't see how anyone can say that Euros create superior products than Asians or Americans. I'm not American. I'm a Chinese YOF.

 

You can get any kind of food in the US, McDonld is hardly the kind of food people going out to a restaurant would eat. As for cars, what does the typical Europeans drive? I am sure they are all drving the Benz after they get taxed 50% of their income first. You have lost all credibility when you say Japan have not made a good car yet. When factoring in price, reliablity, features and style, there is no way Japanese is not at or very close to the top with many of their cars. If you are one of those Europeans that are extremely rich, then good for you, I guess langal is talking about living standars of average citizens.

 

You seem to have a misguided preoccupation with the skin color of those manufacturing goods. Mind you, the overwhelming majority of Japanese brand autos sold in the States are actually produced in places like Kentucky, Ohio, Tennessee, Alabama, and South Carolina. And a good number of workers on German auto production lines are actually ethnic Turks and Algerians. In any case, you have also missed the point I am making about high quality goods. I am not denying that Japanese makers can compete well against the likes of Volkswagen at the low to mid-end range. I just don't think that they have yet produced cars which compare with the high-end 'Benz or BMW or sporty italian' that you stated. My whole point is that low to mid-end level goods can be more easily outsourced or produced elsewhere than high-end goods can. An example is Chinese steel, which has steadily eaten up American marketshare over the past few years (at least the low to mid-end quality level). American steel manufacturers are getting hammered by their Chinese counterparts because low to mid-end quality steel is not all that difficult to make. However, most Swedish, German, and Japanese steel makers are still doing fine at this point because of the decades of investment and experience and infrastructure that it takes to develop high quality steel. And a company or nation that needs high quality to produce skyscrapers or surgical instruments or what have you is not going to take a chance with steel of lower quality. I hope this all helps to clarify my position. And let me add, that I do not doubt that one day the Chinese or Japanese or perhaps even Cambodians will be able to produce goods that rival that of their Euro counterparts. I just feel that for the time being, there are certain industries and markets in Europe that are safe because (IMO) they are industry leaders in terms of quality.