heypartner, I don't know if you're referring to me questioning someone else, or them questioning me. Believe me, I don't mind when people question me. It gives me an opportunity to express the way I feel, and if I do it well to give those opinions a little more validity, or at least make people think about them (at least I like to think that so don't burst my bubble). If I do a poor job, then I have to reevaluate what I'm thinking and how I want to express it. Gascon's question: "According to whom?" was a good one. I thought about it and I had no satisfactory answer. The only thing I could come up with was ME or God, and neither of those answer could be defended very well. I like to question how and what people believe and think. That's how I form my own opinion on certain subjects. I hopefully never do it in a way that will make another person not want to discuss things with me. ---------------- Jeff, No, it was never right to do those things. Like the old adage goes: "Just because it's legal don't make it right, and just because it's right don't make it legal." Legality and right do have a correlation, but not a perfect one. There are laws that are wrong. Also, besides the legal aspect you mentioned what I considered to be "acceptability". Just because society deems something socially acceptable or unacceptable doesn't make those things right or wrong. I guess the truth is I cannot explain what "right and wrong" is. I feel that our conscience plays a part in it. But, there are people who ignore their consciences. This just means they are ignoring what's right and/or wrong, not that they cannot tell the difference. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. DREAMer's Rocket Page [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited September 21, 2000).]
DREAMer,What I mean by actions is simply following the commandments set forth in the bible.I feel that the Bible also points out that one should be respectful,humble,giving and caring to his/her fellow man.As far as entering Heaven on deeds alone I would agree with you to a point,but IMHO it`s the basis of the text.Everyone has there own feelings on the subject and I would be glad to talk about it if you want.As far as Jeffs right and wrong theory,I personally do not agree with it but thats what makes this such a intresting subject,and we are all free to voice our posistions on the subject.Thanks! ------------------
DREAMer, no, not you in particular. my point is I want to hear all the stories Please post stories only, here, not further exposition on your beliefs based on those stories. We have plenty of opportunity for that. Really though, I am just one voice here. I don't mean to sound demanding or anything. Guys, do what you like and want to do. I just honestly believe "Story Threads" are rare and people come out of the woodwork after reading other's stories to deliver a "jewel" of a post, but they might not if we question each other too much. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited September 21, 2000).]
pardner, I agree 100%, that was the purpose of this thread, to exchange stories, not to argue differences. Thank you for understanding. ------------------ Talking to a dead hare about art
DREAMer: I'm not talking about legality OR acceptance. I'm talking about how we define our actions. You say it was never right to do the things I mentioned. Well, you say that now. But, had you lived in those times, you probably would've thought differently. Perspective and retrospect are funny things. The action of doing what might be considered wrong is just an action. If someone kills someone, they just killed them. Only after the killing takes place do we place a societal value on the act of killing. If it was done during a war, we consider it justified. If it was done during a bar fight, we might call it self-defense or manslaughter. If it is done in retaliation, we call it murder unless it is a cop, then we call it justice. We live in a world where everything is linear and finite. It is impossible to place judgement on actions in a non-linear and infinite way. To say an action is universally wrong is to say that it is wrong now and forever. The universe doesn't work that way - at least my universe doesn't. It is like trying to put God in a box so he/she has characteristics that we can define him/her based on a set of variables we understand. It simply isn't possible. heypartner: I understand your feelings, but if someone asks me something or questions something I said, I am going to respond. As for keeping people from posting, I hope it doesn't but that happens sometimes. For example, my wife decided to stop posting after you called her posts to my "3000" thread "silly." To each his (or her) own. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
Jeff ouch, but that wasn't in the 3000 thread. It was in a heated thread, and it was a bad attempt to use an anecdote to make fun of myself and respond to your "silly" remark to me. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited September 21, 2000).]
I was raised a Southern Baptist, and I am currently a member of a Southern Baptist church, I took a ministry class at Baylor, so I know all about what Southern Baptists are supposed to believe (baptism by emersion of believers by immersion, no creeds or confessions because of the doctrine of priesthood of the believer etc.) and I can honestly say that I am not a very good Southern Baptist. The basic beliefs of the Christian Fath can be summed up as such... I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth. And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord; Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, Born of the Virgin Mary; Suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried; The third day he rose from the dead; He asacended into heaven; and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I beleive in the Holy Spirit; The Holy catholic (meaning universal) church, The communion of saints; The forgiveness of sins; The resurrection of the body; And the life everlasting. These are the words of the Apostle's Creed, not written by the Apostles themselves, but by the early church to clarify the beleifs of the Christian beleifs. I believe in reformed Theology. I beleive that the Bible is the ultimate measure of truth. I listen to and read R.C. Sproul and think he is right on. I believe in covenant theology, God creates and has always created covenants with his people beginning with Adam, and Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of all those covenants, which build on one another and do not cancel each other out, which some modern theologians believe. I believe the greatest problem with the church today is that many Christians do not have a clue what they believe and therefore do not hold to what they believe. Those outside the church see this inconsistancy and rightfully charge the church with hypocracy. Some of those inside the church see this as a chance to twist the Word of God to suit thier own pleasure. The Church is sick and sore and needs reformation. I believe I am chosen by God to be a Christian. Only those who God chooses will be saved, it is not fair, we all deserve death and destruction, but it is the way God works. Not all who are in the church will be saved, not all outside the formal church will be lost, but Christ is the only way to salvation. ------------------
Sorry if I misunderstood, but it seemed to me that rimbaud's topic called for a certain amount of explanation as to what our individual beliefs happen to be. If I wasn't supposed to question some points in other posts, I certainly apologize. I was only curious. But, please, by all means, stories would be very interesting and most welcome. Certainly any more interesting than mine. ------------------ Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me...you.
