[ESPNEWS] Astros Won't Pick Up Jeff Bagwell's Option

I agree. Couple the damn arthritic shoulder plus, playing a majority of his games at the ol' Non-homer dome and that knocked down what should have been even more legendary stats than he already got.

Great defensive 1b, great instincts, and in his prime, one of the fastest 1b to ever play the game.

Closing this chapter sucks, really sucks ...

 

say hello to #17, the future.

 

I'm still getting over Glen Davis not being there...

 

All time Astro

Biggio>Bagwell

First Base (at the plate and in the field)

Big Puma>Bagwell

Biggio=HOF

Bagwell, maybe one day

 

This was a long time coming but I'm still pretty sad about it. When I had practically given up on the Stros after those terrible seasons of the early 80's it was Bagwell who got me fired up about them again. Great player and great guy and I definately hope to see him in Cooperstown someday.

As for his official retirement I'm guessing he will announce it when the season starts. He will probably have some sort of official ceremony at the first home game. I just can't see any AL team picking him up to DH at this point, although it would be great to see him play again.

On a related note its really going to be an end of an era when Biggio hangs up his cleats.

 

The future is already here.

 

I think you're suffering from a little bass ackwardness there. Biggio will be attending Bagwell's HOF fame induction years before Bagwell attends Biggio's...

 

i totally disagree. biggio will be there first. his place all-time will be absolutely air-tight when he gets the 3,000th hit. and bagwell, unfortunately, will be tainted with playing in an era where power numbers are suspect.

 

Yeah, I'm sure Bonds won't be a first ballot HOF, either. Besides, hasn't it bee mostly pitchers that have been suspended for steroids?

Anyways, besides, the obvious power numbers difference, Bagwell has a better average, OBP, and BB/SO ratio than Biggio.

You want somebody who's career is "tainted", just look at Mark McGwire. It was either homerun or strikeout for him.

 

I'm not saying it's fair that Bagwell will be lumped in with that. I just think all power hitters will be lumped in with that.

I think Biggio's accomplishments are more celebrated by the national media than Bagwell's. I think he will get in first. If he gets to 3,000, he's going in on the first ballot.

 

Actually, Biggio's case for the Hall of Fame is airtight. He won't be a first ballot (well, if he gets his 3K this year he'll merit consideration), but he's a lock to get in.

But the argument that Biggio is greater than Bagwell seems myopic. Of course, the argument is silly altogether as these guys are #1 and #2 any way you slice it in franchise history--no one else is even close.

Were Bagwell healthy 2003-2006, we would be arguing whether he was a *first ballot* HOF, not whether he gets in, and we'd be excitedly looking forward to the last year of his contract and wondering if he hangs 'em up afterward. Really, really, really, really, really sucks. Hard.

 

And that's what sucks about HOF voting. If you just look at offense, you come away thinking McGwire and the Big Hurt are Bagwell's equals (or even better). And that's sad. Because those guys can't even carry his jock. He's head and shoulders above those guys. McGwire was a one-trick pony, and while the Big Hurt was more of the total package in the box, he's not in the same *field* as Bagwell where speed, baserunning, and defense are concerned.

I don't have them off the top of my head, but if you list the top five NL 1B all time, Bags has got to be in there.

Folks look at the last five years and say, "well Biggio is better." They're just forgetting the 90s--not forgetting they exist, but forgetting the way one forgets the Grand Canyon. You go back to that thing, and no matter how many times you've seen it, you still say, "DAMN that's amazing!"

 

has there ever been a guy who finished with 3,000 hits and DIDN'T get voted in on the first ballot?

i don't know...i'm seriously asking.

 

I have no idea. That sounds like something Turgidson or Burzmali would know.

 

you mean besides pete rose?
palmeiro won't be a first ballot for sure.
here's the 3,000 hit club:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hi3000c.shtml

 

Sorry, but IMO, Biggio limping towards 3000 hits doesn't make him a first ballot hall of famer. His 162 game average for hits is exactly one higher than Bagwell's. Besides, I don't think Bagwell will be "lumped in" with the higher profile power hitters. His power numbers have been consistent throughout his entire career, unlike the big spikes of the other players that have had steroid accusations with them. I haven't heard or seen Bagwell's name mentioned with the steroid issue, well except when you bring it up. Hopefully, the baseball writers will look past hitters like Bonds, McGwire, and Brady Anderson, and see the true Bagwell.

You don't plan on becoming a baseball writer, do you? While you're leaving Bagwell off your HOF ballot, you can burn that Rockets 1995 championship t-shirt that never should have been printed, because a sixth seeded team obvously shouldn't be in the playoffs

(ok, that last paragraph was a low blow...what can I say, I'm channeling tinman today. )

 

Best first baseman in the history of the National League.

Bagwell
Stargell
McCovey
Orlando Cepeda
Tony Perez

If Jeff Bagwell is not a Hall of Famer, they should burn the ****er down.

 

best all around, pujols might overtake him on the offensive stats one day but not defense/fielding wise.

 

Precisely! I've made this same observation on multiple occasions. However, when you study the numbers out the spikes aren't as defined as it seems they would be (Anderson notwithstanding).

I haven't either--but I have read, several times, that he's going to suffer due to the era in which he played. And I believe it is that to which Max is referring.

 

i always forget about palmeiro. thanks for posting that!