Jordan did this ALL THE TIME. Why do you think players were bailing on the Bulls even after they won three titles(Horace Grant.)? Kobe was a free agent. Kobe made it plainly clear that he would not be resigning if Shaq and Jackson were still there and even went deep into negotiations with the Clippers. Seriously, watch the game tonight - look at the open looks that the Heat guards get that the Lakers guards do not. Look at what the Heat are doing. Wade was a media darling on a team that finished 42-40 - now they're cruising at 50-16. . . Because of Shaq. Having a dominant bigman opens up everything for your offense. Look at Penny Hardaway before and after O'Neal - do you realize Hardaway shot over 50% from the field with O'Neal opening up the lanes for him? O'Neal won with Hardaway - Hardaway did not win without O'Neal. O'Neal won with Bryant - Bryant is not winning without O'Neal. Wade was a promising player on a mediocre team without O'Neal - Now he's a franchise guard on a team that looks the favorite to go to the Finals.
Lol I'm not the one who missed the point, this is your initial post: Notice where you wrote any other player . In case you didnt know the term any other player includes everyone! Hence any other player ! If you meant strictly by position wouldn't you have just said any other center????? Thus Any normal reading would translate it to mean to be regardless of position unless it was otherwise expressed. And Furthermore no where else did u mention only choosing centers or exact positions... SO it was you who missed your own point. Again no one is going around anything, reread your orig post... note especially the sentence where you wrote; Oh if you wanted to be so strict about replacing players by positions you should note that Allen Iverson is a point guard. ANd the thought that Garnett /kobe have no chance at winning the ring lol, Garnett/Kobe = Vince/Shaq.
Bolds originally posted by francis 4 prez: did you just call brian grant decent? Yes. Yes I did. Replace Grant with Mihm if you like. The Lakers have some fair players around Kobe. and i don't understand the "top plays than a real game" comment. for the 90 seconds it's on, i'd rather watch the top 10 plays of the day than a real game. who wouldn't? The modern casual fan that is more enamoured of the high flying dunks and behind the back passes than a winning formula. The kind of fan that thinks Steve Francis is a good player. as far as shaq making kobe, he didn't.... Pued covered this pretty well, so I will simply direct you to his post.
Now that we're playing hypotheticals. Could TD and Kobe beat Shaq (in his prime) and AI/Tmac/Carter/Allen/Kidd. The proof is in the pudding. Shaq's record while Kobe was injured was much better than Kobe's while Shaq was injured. Shaq changes the game like no other player since Dream in his prime.
I understand, it was my fault, I misstated what I intended to say. But to go even further than just "any center", may be Kobe and Duncan/Garnett could have won a championship ring or two, but I don't think they would have made it 4 times to the Finals and would have won 3 rings. Shaq is much more dominant than a Duncan or a Garnett, it is his sheer size and freakness of nature that makes him so different from any other big man, period (center or PF). And as some in this thread have already said: the truth is in the pudding. Look at the track record of Shaq versus Kobe. Look at what an unbelievable difference Shaq makes in a team by his simple presence (regardless of champsionships won), and the struggles of Kobe/Penny when Shaq left. Garnett and Kobe would make a dream duo, but they wouldn't beat a T-Mac/Yao in their prime or the current Spurs team, IMHO.
totally agree. OOO that would be quite a match up & undoubtably fun to watch! Assuming the Kobe/Garnett had the supporing cast of fisher, fox, Horace grant, Horry etc I'm not sure who'd be the favorites out of the three. Though i think Garnett and Kobe would beat Tmac and Yao atm especially since Yao hasnt reached his peak and so we dont know yet what Yao's Prime or peak will be. ooo another fun question. I would have to favor duncan/kobe over every combination except tmac/shaq. Since Im a huge duncan fan I tend to assume that duncan=shaq or if not loses not by much... while AI Allen carter and Kidd all loses to a large degree in their matchup to Kobe. With AI & Carter its Defense, with Kidd its scoring and shooting. Tmac on the other hand matches up well against Kobe as he did everything well especially from 01-03 (including defense). Si ill call duncan/kobe tmac/shaq a pick em All of this is based on the assumption Kobe could coexist with another superstar of course!
Those WOULD be dream matchups, can you imagine the NBA ratings if that were to happen So you got me thinking, and I decided to let NBA LIVE 2005 decide which duo is better. So I recreated the Lakers roster of the championship years with the usual suspects (Fisher, Horry, Kobe, George, etc.) and just substituted Duncan for Shaq, and later on I replaced Shaq with KG. I played that team off against the Lakers as if they still had Shaq and T-Mac instead of Kobe. Here are the results: 1) In a best of three (having to win two), the Shaq/T-Mac Lakers swept the Duncan/Kobe Lakers, 112-103 in the 1st game, and 94-86 in the 2nd game. 2) In a best of three series, the KG/Kobe Lakers lost to the Shaq/T-Mac Lakers: 103-85 L in the 1st, a 96-94 W in the 2nd, and a 119-105 L in the 3rd. I am yet to do a Shaq/Kobe v. Shaq/T-Mac combo, but will let you know how that one goes, but the Shaq/T-Mac combo has proven unstoppable so far
Tim Duncan and Kobe's game would not mesh Tim is not a down low Banger. . which is what Kobe needs to get some space Rocket River
Just for curiosity sake, what do you mean by down low Banger? And how does one creates space for drivers slashers. examples would be helpful
that's the problem. o'neal had hardaway, then o'neal had bryant, then o'neal had wade. o'neal won without hardaway with kobe bryant. hell, he upgraded. of course penny will lose out on that considering shaq left for nothing. kobe got lamar odom, of course shaq will do better with wade. even w/o wade, shaq would do better b/c shaq is better. i'm not disputing that. but shaq doesn't make these guys. but we'll never know what shaq does w/o an all-nba sidekick b/c shaq strolls from dominant 2 guard to dominant 2 guard. the latter half of kobe's career, the part without shaq, will be hall of fame caliber. and i suspect the latter part of wade's career will at least be very close. people talked about the prospects of pairing up shaq and wade this summer b/c wade was already looked upon as really good. has shaq accelerated it, say the way nash has made amare look even better. i'm sure he has. but wade (and amare) would be very good no matter what and shaq gets the benefit of that. as for shaq being indispensible, how can you say kobe + TD doesn't win the title? i mean, duncan along with hakeem are the only two guys to win a title with only role players. now you're saying i throw kobe on the team and they don't win?
