(ESPN) Vote: Hakeem = greatest center in NBA history!

You know nothing about Shaq.

He worked on his game that much is certain

His decision to have surgery on companys time is bad one but I thought we were talking about a players impact when hes ON THE FLOOR

Shaqs defense has always been underrated, just because he didnt make all defensive teams doesnt meen jack. Tell me how many all defensive teams has Battier ever made? But either way I wont deny Hakeem was the better team defender.

LOL Refreshing boxscores good one, try and make me out to be a stat junkie I dont care, your personal attacks meen nothing and only show how insecure you are with your argument.

YOU KNOW IT, I KNOW IT. SHAQ VS HAKEEM is most definately debatable.

Funny you bring up rebounding in a Shaq vs Hakeem argument though as Shaq had the higher reb rate for his career and for a single season, good try attempt at trying to sound witty though. But Ill admit both were great rebounders as for who was better that is also debatable.

 

I don't get into arguments that i'm insecure about.

My argument is simple, Hakeem has the better all-around game.

If he has more offensive variety, is a better team and 1on1 defender (Hakeems defensive versatility is something you may be overlooking), doesn't have the weaknesses Shaq has, and are both great rebounders (your opinion) where's the debate?

 

Why Shaq is a better passer than Hakeem, that can be possible!!!

 

for sure!!

 

Better 1 on 1 defender? Im not sure about that, from a team perspective yea Hakeem was better but in the post against his own man Id rather have Shaq as Hakeem was abit undersized in the post whereas Shaq was simply impossible to post up in his Laker days. Hakeem may have had a good all around game but in terms of scoring Shaq was more effective, despite his poor ft shooting marks he was more efficient with his shots than Hakeem was. He was less turnover prone as well and a better decision maker with the ball. His statistical dominance of Hakeem speaks volumes of his impact and he has the rings to back them up.

 

Jesus again with the rings.

Shaq was extremely effective from the field, his size and strength allowed him to elbow and bully his way to the post (i hope you don't think he was never guilty of the occasional elbow to the kidney off his 'spin' moves). Does that make him a better offensive player than Hakeem? No. Besides you'd better damn hope he's more efficient if all of his shots are coming from 5ft and in, and impossible to post-up? Well i wouldn't think the superstar offensive talents like Vlade Divac, Brad Miller and Dikembe Mutombo really had a chance against him, even with their expansive post-up game and all.

You do remember Robert Horry, yes? Well he played with both Hakeem and Shaq in their absolute prime--he says Hakeem was the better player.

Hakeem is the better player.

 

Walton may be the best passing big man in the history of the game.

 

I thought it was curious that Shaq did not win a single stat category in the voting (rebounds, blocks, offense, defense). But when people were asked who you would like to build a team around, Shaq was the clear favorite. The guy is just so big that it has a huge psychological effect.

 

You really can't disrespect Shaq's game and his accomplishments as one of the top 5 greatest Centers of all time. It pisses me off to see people bashing Shaq. Personally, I don't really like Shaq that much. I don't dislike him but I've never been a big Shaq fan. Whatever you think of the guy and his current level of play and his being out of shape, etc., no way can you deny he is one of the top 5 centers of all time and one of the best to play the game.

I see some people bashing Shaq's game here and there and think to myself... do these guys follow the same NBA as me? But yeah, when you try to determine the better player between Shaq and Hakeem it's really just splitting hairs. Some people say Hakeem, most probably say Shaq. A great case can be made for both to be the 4th best center of all time... but I still gotta give a little edge to my man Hakeem.

All bias aside, Hakeem faced tougher opponents, had weaker (not that much weaker but you know what I mean) championship teams, was a complete, solid player that was good at everything and great at some things. Shaq was the man too, but a few things fell more to Shaq's favor; plus I think while Shaq is better than Hakeem in strength and a few other aspects, certain aspects of the Big Aristotle's game lacked where Hakeem was rock solid.

But really? We'll never know who was straight up BETTER in their primes. I say lets rejoice that once Yao retires, 3 of the 10 best centers of all time will have been Houston Rockets. Woo!

 

i think hakeem/shaq is about as close as it gets and why i would pretty much call them tied wherever i ranked them vs the other big 3. however, what statistical dominance?

scoring he's got hakeem beat, but they are equal rebounders, i believe pretty equal on assists, and hakeem kicks shaq's ass in steals and blocks. shaq wins on fg% (and for people who say well he always was within 5 ft, so what? if you can take every shot 5 ft from the basket, you do it, you don't go outside of 5 ft just to show how well-rounded your game is), loses big time on ft% (though shaq still wins TS% by 2-3% i think), and i wanna say they're pretty close on turnovers.

if you're just looking at hakeem's career totals, that skews it heavily towards shaq as hakeem had his last 3 years dragging him down. shaq is just at season 15 which was hakeem's last good season, and then the wheels fell off for the final 3 years.

compare them up to this point and there's barely any difference. one's got offense, the other defense. the biggest difference is one played with penny, kobe, and wade, the other played with drexler, chievous, and jamerson.

 

through 14 seasons:

hakeem: 23.8 ppg, 11.9 rpg, 2.7 apg, 3.4 bpg, 1.8 spg, 51.5%, 55.7 TS%, 3.2 TOpg


shaq: 26.3 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 2.8 apg, 2.5 bpg, .7 spg, 58.0%, 58.4 TS%, 2.9 TOpg

 

RE: Turnovers.

Why do players like Steve Nash, Allen Iverson and Dwyane Wade sit atop the league in turnovers?

 

Yea again with the rings as you havent proven why they shouldnt be recognized.

If the refs dont call the foul then yes it does make him a better offensive player.

You mentioned man defense and I corrected you so yea hes a better post defender.

And thats very cute that Horry thought Hakeem was better, so I guess Horry's word > anyone else's huh.

Your arguing like a school girl

 

Thats an oppinion I can respect, someone who atleast recognizes there is room for a debate.

 

What exactly are you attempting to get at?

 

Is this some sort of a joke?

Shaq O'Neal was a better 1 on 1 defender than Hakeem?

That has to be a joke.

Hakeem moved much better laterally, was a quicker leaper than O'Neal, and took his opponents out of rhythm by poking the ball away so often with his quick hands. He was also a threat to block your shot one on one.

O'Neal was a very lazy defender. Period. He was not even an average defensive player.

When the league actually had talent to throw at him at the Center position, do you think he defended Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, etc well?

When has Shaq been a defensive force one on one against Yao Ming or Tim Duncan in the recent years? Shaq is slow footed defensively. He doesnt even try to guard centers with mid range jumpers most of the time because of sheer laziness.

Certainly not. In his prime Hakeem held Ewing to 35% shooting in the NBA Finals. NO way would O'Neal have done that.

There's a reason when you talk about great 2 way players of the NBA Shaq is never ever ever mentioned. No idea what games you've been watching.

Are you a Heat or Lakers fan out of curiousity?

 

You didnt correct him. You actually said that Shaq O'Neal was a better one on one defender than a guy who is universally considered one of the top 2 or 3, if not #1 defensive Centers ever.

You made a statement that no one in O'Neal's family would even make.

Seriously, if you put that poll in a Heat or Laker's forum, I guarantee you 95% or more pick Hakeem as the better one on one defender.

Just a crazy statement on your part. Did you ever watch either guy play?

 

I got no problem with that, I just find Shaq as a better post defender than Hakeem. He played enough defense to make an all defensive team (granted it was undeserved) but atleast somebody noticed he should get some respect on that end of the floor. Now if you want somebody to shut down the paint and control his man you take Hakeem. I could be wrong but if those numbers of Ewings performance are accurate then Ill concede the point. Either way Shaq wasnt the slouch you make him out to be.

 

Your right, get off my case allready

 

Better than Shaq