ESPN: Too much Kobe dooms Lakers

goodbug, where art thou

 

Guys I don't think you understand it. Kobe is great, no denying. Lakers without him are crap and he is a big reason why they have won back to back titles.

But to me, the key is Gasol. Look at boxscores. When Gasol plays at MVP level they are almost unbeatable. Ask Phil and I am sure he will have the same answer.

When they go to Gasol early and establish him early nobody can matchup with them cause once Gasol is doubled they have shooters, cutters and Kobe will always strike at you.

Kobe is their BEST player, but Gasol is the KEY.

 

Star players take the majority of their teams' shots. A la MICHAEL ****ING JORDAN. If you have a problem with superstars, then don't watch the NBA. Stars sell, not role players.

 

Yeah, but it's pretty much a given that Bynum will be injured for the playoffs. Perkins getting injured was a fluke.

Also, didn't the Lakers get beatdown by 40 points in 2008? Not sure Bynum makes much difference there.

 

You make some good points, but you are seriously underrating this team without Kobe. They are hardly "crap". They went 6-3 without him last year against good competition, and the three losses were 1) 1 point to Boston, 2) 2 points to Denver, and 3) a meaningless end of season game where the starters all rested or played limited minutes. This team would win 50 games and be a threat in the playoffs.

And Gasol is their BEST player by every measure. Kobe is simply their biggest name player.

 

Rudy?

 

But can we agree that they are much, much better when Gasol gets more than 15 shots?

 

It's been proven Kobe has been on major decline for a while back.

Now his knee injury will only make it worse.

 

I beat Kobe in a game of H-O-R-S-E once

 

:grin: @ this thread.

 

Kobe's numbers are definitely down, but not ridiculously so. His only thing at the moment is he's taking a few too many shots and a few too many of those are 3's, which he's not shooting as well this year. His PER so far this season is still 24.3, higher than his career average and higher than last year.

Pau's PER is slightly higher, at 25 - but as everyone's noted, this is the best he's ever played. I wouldn't call him their BEST player...certainly not yet. Keep it up the whole season, then maybe for this year, and keep it up next year as well, then yes, he takes that over from Kobe, but Kobe has played at or above Pau's current level consistently every year, year after year. Pau has not. Plus, as noted, Kobe is still playing at a very high level - just not quite at the level were accustomed to.

Pau clearly needs more shots, especially on nights when Kobe is misfiring. But in the loss to Indiana, Kobe's 33 shots were a lot, yes, but he scored 41 points. Pau took 15 shots, but wasn't very efficient, only scoring 13 points. And he had 5 turnovers (despite certainly not handling the ball nearly as much).

I'm not trying to analyze game by game, and am by no means a Kobe fan generally...but will say he's won me over to the dark side in regards to just respecting his level of play, effort and desire to win. And though Pau has overall played at an equal clip this year thus far, not ready to say he's undoubtedly their best player, and by no means would I ride the Gasol horse as the main cog to win a championship.

Also consider that while they're generally aren't a ton of big men in the league with anywhere near Pau's level of skill, offensively or defensively, the Lakers have had a fairly big man weak opponent schedule. The two games Pau's played against any sort of true defensive big presence - Hibbert with the Pacers and Noah with the Bulls - were his worst. Again, not that that's about to change anytime soon. There just aren't many good bigs in the league. But they haven't played Boston yet, no San Antonio yet, the Hornets can at least throw Emeka at him - haven't played them yet, the Mavs who they haven't played can throw Chandler at him, having played Dwight yet, he's already had a fairly average offensive efficiency game against the Nuggets (though he rebounded like a madman that game).

Can't fault Pau for being one of the best of a dying breed - the multi-skilled NBA big man. But just pointing out he hasn't exactly been tested yet even by those in the league who potentially can give him a harder time.

 

I'm actually mixed up between these two threads

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=196732

 

Kobe's got enough hardware to play whatever way he wants, unlike LeChoker. If Lakers lost in playoff due to his style, it's on him. But as long as Lakers lost in playoff, it's on him anyway, so what do haters try to argue here? First establish Gasol as the man, then make Kobe accountable if they lost in playoff? What a bunch of tools!

 

hahah, they are nothing without him.

 

And the Rockets would have won the title every year from 2005-2009 if not for T-Mac's debilitating case of pussyitis.

 

How is it a fluke? That makes no sense.... injuries can happen all the time... and the Celtics were winning that game through the 1st 3 quarters... so not having Perkins is just a bull**** excuse. If you want to go that route, you either acknowledge both injuries, or you don't use either as an excuse. You can't have it both ways.

I'm not using injuries as an excuse... I'm just saying that if you are, you better have it both ways. I hate using excuses for losses.

 

LOL @you for bringing up Lebron in a thread that has nothing to do with him... again. Who's obsessed now?

For you newbies to the forum:
Goodbug will only post in any Lebron or Kobe/Lakers related thread.
My advice to you, goodbug, please please spend more of your times in Lakers' forum.
Cause your debates are getting old. It always goes like this.
(1) Heat is Wade team not Lebron's
(2) Lebron gets his assists because he hogged the ball. Kobe will get double digits assists if he wanted too but his role is a scorer.
(3) Kobe makes his teammates better whereas Lebron don't.
(4) Kobe couldnt win anything without Shaq or Gasol because Smush, Kwame, and Walton sucked.

I thought you said the team leader (Kobe, Lebron, Jordan) was supposed to take all of the responsibility and blame, not blame it on his teammates, which is all you ever do when faced with the "kobe couldnt win without shaq or gasol" argument.

and your argument that Kobe is better than Jordan is always more or less the same.
Is fun to read your post at first but now is getting old. Please come back again if you have any new tricks. Thank you!

Signed,

everyone on clutchfans who isnt an idiot and thinks you are horrible at trolling

 

Bynum is always injured in the playoffs so you have to expect him to be gone every year; it's a fluke if he's healthy. You expect Perkins to be there, though, hence the fluke last year.

And the Celtics were winning through 3 quarters because the refs weren't putting their stamp on the game. Then Joey "Laker Lover #24" Crawford gave the Lakers a 20+ FT advantage in the 4th (can anyone think of other times this was done? I can: 2000 WCF Game 7, 2002 WCF Game 6... see the pattern?) True, even with Perkins that would have been difficult to overcome.

 

Gasol was shooting 5-15 for 13 in one game, 5-13 for 14 in the other. You can doubt his shots there, he's probably gonna tire out sooner and be less efficient, and Lakers wouldn't even have the chance to win it at final shot.

These are just some laughable blames. Kobe's the reason Gasol is efficient, check Gasol's FG% in Lakers and in Grizzles. On the other hand, Kobe's always consistent around 45% year in year out, with or without Gasol.