Could Cousy even dribble with his left? It looks like ESPN are building towards a top ten list for every position, and God help them if Hakeem isn't a) top 5 b) top 5 ahead of Shaq I can accept the fact that people think Wilt and Russell were better than Dream (not my opinion, i think Dream is the best ever) but i can't accept him being behind Shaq.
yeah i can't tell if that famous clip of him is him just having fun dribbling it around everyone with one hand or if he really didn't have any handles with his left. i would say i can't believe he was an all-time great w/o being able to dribble with both hands but then a lot of times watching espn classic guys almost never go to their offhand so maybe he couldn't. we may as well accept the fact right now that hakeem will be behind shaq on the list. i personally think they're pretty much tied (shaq has offensive advantage, hakeem defensive) but if i picked anyone it would be hakeem for stepping up even more in the playoffs and for being a 4th quarter guy. now if hakeem isn't in the top 5, someone will have to die. i know they'll put russell ahead of him even though hakeem is better but that ship has sailed in terms of winning that argument.
You think Shaq has an offensive edge over Dream? That's a big call, i think Dream's arsenal was way bigger than Shaq's, way way way bigger. His reactions to double teams was much better (i suppose it had to be as Shaq could just barrel through them )He had more range and just left defenses clueless about what he would do next. I'd like to see what Shaq would be capable of without his size and power... Your last statement was so so true. Some arguements just aren't worth fighting.
i don't think there's any doubt he has the offensive edge. he averaged 29 in his second year in the league, and has about a 27 ppg scoring average. even cutting hakeem's career off at the same time (14 years) he's still only around 24 ppg. when hakeem reached his mvp run from 93-95, he was as good as shaq offensively (except maybe shaq's mvp season) and was putting up around 27 ppg. game in, game out, as much attention as you had to pay to hakeem, teams had to pay even more to shaq. any slip up and he's pinned you under the basket and is dunking on you or getting fouled. while hakeem undoubtedly had the vastly more varied repertoire, better range, and more quickness and a ton of shaq's game was based on being 300+ pounds (and very quick for 300+), it doesn't really matter how you do it. shaq has never had the need to shoot outside of 5 feet b/c he's never farther away. at the end of the day, he scores more and with a great percentage. he came into the league a much bigger offensive force and hakeem slowly caught up throughout his career. now defensively, hakeem has about a 1 block and even more than 1 steal advantage almost every year of their careers and is obviously superior. shaq has 3 titles to 2 for hakeem, but give hakeem kobe in his prime while hakeem is somewhere in his prime and i think he could manage the extra title.
I still think Hakeem was a greater offensive player, as good as your argument is. Scoring more doesn't make you a better offensive player, it simply makes you better at what little you do best. I would say a guy who scores 10 baskets based on two baby hooks, six bulldozing dunks and a couple of up and under moves is not as varied offensively as a player who makes ten baskets on two fadeaways, two baby hooks, 4 different spin moves an up and under and a spot up J. I agree Shaq was amazingly quick for his size. But just watch the film, no two Hakeem baskets are ever the same. Hakeem could punish his defender facing up or posting up, Shaq's game was all post up, he occasionally would do a face up move (i remember crossing over Vlade Divac--beautiful), but Hakeem was much more refined, skilled, athletic and creative. And i also believe the defensive differences are much greater than the stats indicate, but we agree that Hakeem was a superior defender so there's no point arguing.
hakeem was amazing. and i'll be a homer and say he's the best player to ever touch a basketball. but shaq's shooting percentage is amazing. his shooting percentage is at 60% this year. one of the highest ever. career average of 58%. hakeem's career is 512 with his highest ever single reason being around 54 in his first year. every single season shaq has played in the league he's had a higher shooting percentage than hakeem's peak year. im never gonna say anyones better than hakeem. but thats bloody impressive.
If that impresses you so much, check out the bottom portion of Desert Scar's post (#148) in this thread (my, that certainly was an entertaining one).
