Seriously, nobody is arguing that Griffin is a better player than Lewis, because that is absurd. I don't even think anyone is arguing the Griffin is better, or at least will start over Mo Taylor. He has some learning to do still, of course. But if his play this sumemr is indicative at all, he may very well turn out to be not just a good PF but a dominating one. Is Lewis a dominating SF? Does he deserve the money he will undoubtedly be asking for? Is he going to get even better? Is his talent worht giving up on the possibility of Griffin. These are all things to consider. I know the Rockets mgmt would think hard abotu a straight-up trade of Griffin for Lewis. But, considering that such a trade is an impossibility, and we would more than likely have to add another quality player such as Taylor or Thomas, I don't see Rashard in a Rockets uniform this year.
What is with this trade Moochie for Payton stuff and Francis for Barry sarcastic replys. You guys are acting like Eddie is a superstar already. He didn't even make the rookie first team. I would take Rashard over Griffin now. Rashard averaged 17 points and 7 boards.
____________________________________________________________ OK Dude, you just exposed yourself. Lewis is a 6'10" small forward with no post game and no D? Have you seen him play regularly? He is deadly posting up (a la Paul Pierce, not as much game as Jermaine O'Neal, but getting there) He is deadly shooting and driving and passes well. And where did the lie start about him playing no D? He is an adequate defensive player, which on the Rockets puts him right next to Eddie. And as for limited minutes, Eddie had limited minutes cause he didn't earn more...on a bad team to boot. Hell the only reason tierre Brown touched the floor at all last season was because we were bad and needed to develop young players while we had the chance. When Rashard was a rookie he played the same and averaged about the same. Check the stats kid. Lewis is a rising star a la Jermaine O'Neal. He is getting better every year. How can you say today he will never be better than a role player when he is still getting better every year? Lewis doesn't have to mold to be an all star? Why? Griffin one of the best power forwards in the league? How can you say that today? Which one of the 4's is he even in the same league with? Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Ben Wallace, Malone, Dirk Nowitski, Pao Gasol, Antoine Walker (maybe), Chris Webber, Rashed Wallace, Elton Brand? Any of these guys? My point is potential and a quarter will get you a piece of gum. Griff may be one day, but Rashard is. And they are both still on the rise. That said, I'd still think long and hard about this one.
I don't think Ford is that off. Some of the things he said obviously weren't proofread (contradictions on Mo, Morris, etc. etc.) Anyhow- Griffin isn't going anywhere. I consider him probably less likely to be traded than even Steve. MoT for Croshere is interesting. I do like what Croshere brings in terms of his tough mentality, shot, experience. His contract is basically Mo's equal. He provides a benefit in his greater ability to play the 3 providing insurance for Boki and Rice, and his size/skills make 4 his primary position, providing stability backing Griffin (eventually). I'd consider it. I'd like to sign Russell, too. I'm not sure that what we can pay him and/or the role we can give him will be acceptable to him, and don't count on that happening. We should only give Yao as many minutes as he shows he can handle. If he's not effective a given game (or at least less so than Cato), he shouldn't be playing.
Sorry about the double post guys... That said, I would trade Griff and Thomas (and throw in Cato for good measure to make the trade work cap-wise) in a heartbeat. Wait!!! I gotta go call CD right now!!!
Ok, here's my take on this. When Rashard was a "rookie" he only avg 2.4 ppg. The thing is that he only avg 7.3 mpg. Eddie should have probably gotten the same, maybe more. The next season, Rashard did avg about the same ppg in limited minutes, as well. But he had a season and thr off-season to get NBA ready. The next season, Shard got about 15ppg, and then 17 last year. IMO, Shard is just a really good shooter, with some rebounding. Gary helped him with good passes, so with his good shooting, he got more ppg. Griff is now 20. He should probably, maybe, hopefull get numbers like 14ppg, with some good rpg and bpg. He should be getting this maybe with some posting up, and shooting while open. Maybe if we actually had a offense set up for the team, he could do better. (remember, we only had ISO's and p&r's last year.)
I don't think a trade to get rid of Griffin for Lewis would benefit the Rockets long term. I know Lewis is young also but t seems that Griffin matches the Rockets system better. I do think that Lewis is a decent player and one day might be something special. Furthermore we need a maybe one day special power forward more than we need a small forward, and Griffin should be able to play both spots one day if not already.
We dont need Lewis AT ALL Boki will shoot his lights out and play better defence keep this team as it is Yao Eddie Steve Cat Boki The team of the future
Forget Croshere at his contract. I'd rather sign Russell for the MCE (the better and cheaper player anyway) and keep Mo (who is more of an asset than most people think because he will double as our 3rd Center more often then not). Russell is a 3/2, Croshere is a 4/3 tweener--we have plenty of the latter (EG,KT). Then, provided EG keeps on looking good as our future 4, Mo or KT can be traded for picks or something of greater value early next season than an overpaid bit player (Croshere). I really think unless a spectacular trade opp comes into play (e.g., like Lewis, but would consider someone like Artest for KT or Mo plus whatever filler is needed) I would push hard for Russell at the MCE and go into the season with what we have for now.
The thing is, Nachbar is not a proven commodity yet; Rashard Lewis is. If we can acquire Rashard Lewis without giving up a big piece of our puzzle (i.e. Eddie Griffin), why not? I'm sure that's what Rockets management is trying to do. As the old saying goes, two heads are better than one (ala Peja and Hedo in Sacramento). BTW, probably the biggest weakness in Nachbar's game, as with most Europeans, is his defense. Nachbar has phenomenal skills on the offensive side of the ball; it's on the defensive side where he needs more work and a longer adjustment period.
I know that I'm getting in on this thread late, but I have to tell you that I don't think Chad Ford was as far off with his suggestions as some others seem to think... I would pull the trigger on MoT for Croshere RIGHT FRICKING NOW !! He would give us more speed, range, and better B-ball smarts than we have at the 4 right now...He also does not have to start to make a difference !! I also advocate (as I have in other threads) signing Byron Russell. We need some more toughness and defense in the backcourt And, my level of concern for Baby-ASS Shard is reaching new record levels of "I don't give a rat's patootie!!!!" Shard can bite me and all the other Rockets fans on this Board. He's too big a wuss with too little of an upside for us to care. I look forward to beating the crap out of the sonics/mav's some time in the next couple of years, and watching Shard cry again because the world is SOOOOOO unfair.
Thank you for being sensible And NO, MO for Croshere isn't too smart. Croshere has a huge contract, and would probably give us less than Mo. Thankfully we weren't stupid enough to trade Griffin for Lewis. Honestly I don't even want Lewis unless for the MCE. He probably will demand the ball too much, and couldn't handle being 3rd or even 4th or 5th(eventually) scoring option. It'll be interesting to see where he ends up, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a short deal with Seattle.
andrewmalveaux, What would you rather have a dominant small forward or a dominant power forward? As a 19 year old kid Eddie had some huge games. We all saw that he can rebound, block shots and can score points. He looks like a difference maker on D, he was one of the top shot blockers last year. Eddie has the potential to be a Tim Duncan type of power forward. Now that he is starting to put on some muscle we will start seeing some of the post moves that he had in college. MoT can score, but will never be a good rebounder or shot blocker and never more that avg on defense. I like Rashard but Boki is another player that has played pro ball and has had great success. He looks to have much better handles than Rashard and great hops. He also looks to have a great outside shot. Maybe Rashard is better now but I will take a chance that Eddie will turn into a truely special player.
OK so you don't like the Moochie for Payton analogy then try this one. Trade Cat for the rights to Lebron James when he is drafted. Do you think who ever gets the rights to James would do that deal? Cat is better than Lewis now. No GM in his right mind would trade the rights to James for Cat. Why? Not because James is better than Cat because he most certainly is not. But because James upside is so great that it is worth taking the chance on him instead of going with the sure thing by taking Cat. Same thing with Eddie. When you have someone with the kind of potential that Eddie has you don't trade him for someone like Rashard even if Rashard is a sure thing. We gotta keep Eddie.
I agree you have to keep Eddie. He has to much potential and showed how versital of a player he was last year. Hes the perfect sixth man- I agree with those that say dont start him, hes not ready. But 20-25 minutes a game at the 3 and 4 could net this team some wins. As for the Croshere for Taylor swap, what do we do with Croshere once we get him? Seriously, does he start over Rice, or is he third string? Im all for parting ways with Mo's contract, but they need to really think it out before doing so.
Good analogy crash5179. Anyone who would trade Griff for Lewis is seriously hopped up on tard chards. It is just f*&%ing laughable. Besides these people obviously haven't seen Nachbar play, I have and the dude is going to be better that Lewis by far. He is a freak. I would put him in serious contention at the dunk contest. He plays strong too, very good rebounder. And after just watching Yao block antonio davis like a bee'hotch I am beginning to realize that Yao is going to really bring back to life our interior defense. Who were the idiots that were on this forum a month ago talking about how Yao wasn't a shot blocker. Obviously they have never seen him play and just wanted to talk some rascist sh(t.
