NBA does not hire them but the individual teams do.. if they don't want to hire them, then don't draft or sign them.. it pretty obvious that they are desired by temas.. just look at the previous draft.. who was no 1 pick and how many highschoolers are in the first round..
so what's the point in pointing out that white people pay for the games.. and players are in the minority.. so they should just shut up and play.. thats racist to me..
Unfortunately, if the teams as a whole decide not to "hire" them, they will be sued for collusion. But that is not the argument. The argument is whether or not those under 20 should be allowed to enter the league. Of course there are going to be players that are capable, but for every Lebron James, there is a Korleone Young. As a league, the NBA should be allowed to set age limits, just as corporations do.
He had me going until he said it was racism. The rest of his quote made sense. He's right that the smart thing for these high school phenoms is to come and claim the dollars now. But, he didn't manage to actually explain how the racism comes into play. Also, while he's complaining about the facetiousness of this minimum age campaign, it has seemed to me that the league has been pretty bald-faced about their reasons: they don't want their teams to have to take chances picking kids from the cradle. Talking heads might talk about the importance of education or of the experience, but I haven't seen Stern say any such thing. (Of course, some one will post a quote to porve me wrong.)
again corporations set limits on people they hire and pay for thier salary.. nba league does not hire or pay their salary.. its the individual teams.. and isn't that collusion as what you just defined.. the league as a whole setting age limits.. if there are any busts, then the teams should do their homework and avoid them..
Icehouse, I didn't even mention college. A real minor league system would allow these high schoolers to still be drafted but spend their first one or two years in the NBDL. Why do you think that the NBDL recently expanded? There's no way that the player's union would agree to an age limit without a minor league system.
If the league sets an age limit, that is not collusion. If there is not an age limit, and the teams get together and decide not to draft anyone under 20, that IS collusion. Contracts for individual players HAVE to be approved by the league, thus the league has to be involved with any decisions regarding personnel. The NBA (as a whole) sets the rules. For instance, the Rockets can't just go out and sign any free agent. They have to eventually get league approval (either explicit or implicit). For example, assume that Ron Artest was banned "for life". The Rockets can't sign him even after his contract with the Pacers expires without league permission. Again, I ask, why can't the NBA set reasonable age limits on their employees just like corporations can?
Why do you think that is? For instance, these youngsters that sit on the end of the bench for 2-3 years are taking the place of a veteran player. You would think that the union would have no problems with a 20 year age limit providing teams still stuff their 15 man roster.
again you keep talking as if the NBA hires the players and not the teams.. Again corporations can set limits on their employees.. players are employed by teams.. and players are not employed by the NBA.. so the NBA cannot set limits on players because they're not their employees.. who hires the players? I believe it is the tream or the NBA who pays for the players? I believe it is the tream or the NBA any team can set their own policy.. its their own money so they can do whatever they want.. but I bet if they have a high school player with potential available in the draft they'll think twice before passing him up.. but as for NBA imposing rules on teams on who they can hire I don't know about that.. they're not paying the players anyway..
...because guys that would most likely be against an age limit like Kobe, Garnett, McGrady, O'Neal, and Lebron have a lot of influence in the player's association. The other Superstar players like Duncan, Shaq, Iverson, and Vince Carter don't really care because they don't have to fight for a roster spot in the first place. These "veterans" that are getting their roster spots replaced by high schoolers are old bench warmers that would be fighting for a roster spot anyways...
I was pointing out how bloody stupid the argument would be if O'Neal decided to take a stand on other grounds based on race. But dont let that get in the way of your stupid stance that a persons skin colour effects how much of a say they are allowed to have on a matter.
Not that the union would ever except it but the way to deal with this problem is to get rid of the guaranteed salary structure in the first round. If there is no guarantee of millions htne these guys will go to school to build their worth or go to Europe. I would definitely like to see a minor league system though. It does seem as though there are as many Nachbar's, Cabarkapa;s and Milicic's cloggin up the benches now as there are African-American kids. I am not sure the problem that is trying to be solved is so much a race problem as the lure that the guaranteed money creates for undeveloped or one dimensional players. It really seems to be about age and the guys sitting on benches collecting salaries for 4 years while not contributing.
he cant say it any simpler, even if its the teams choice to do something, the league has the choice to approve it or not. each time a trade happens, it is pending league approval. teams are not individual entities. they are franchises. just like mcdonalds. could the owner of a mcdonalds franchise just change the color of its building from red and gold to black and blue? no, they signed a contract with mcdonalds corp. and are subject to their policy. vendors may participate or not in certain activities, or do some things slightly differently, but all in all, its going to be within the realm of what mcdonalds corp prescribes. teams are franchises of the nba and abide by the current policies of the nba. if the nba and players union agree to an age limit, you are subject to it.
i think James Lang was drafted a couple years ago in the 2nd round out of highschool as well. dont think he even made the roster.
Because there's a big difference between requiring someone to be qualified for a job and merely setting an arbitrary age limit that has tenous connections to ability? I'm sure if IBM made a rule saying they won't hire anyone under the age of 25, regardless of ability or qualification, they'd catch hell
exactly, it's about being qualified. you can't be a doctor or lawyer until you've gone through med school or law school b/c you can't do the job properly until then. it's not about how old you are. in the nba, there's no test you can take to say who is ready and who isn't. it's pretty clear some guys are and to say they can't have the job b/c they haven't passed the magical 18 year old barrier even though they can be above average nba players is silly. protecting gm's from themselves is a silly argument. busts come from every level of experience. hell, people who have been in the league for 5 years and sign with a new team can become busts for that team. HSers are no different. people can say well we have to wait for them so it dilutes the nba, but i don't see it that way. some HSers are average or above average nba players. that's extra talent in the nba at that moment. we've replaced some 15th man with an average nba player, that's a gain. and if they suck, well then we've replaced a 15th man with someone who sucks for no net change. we're not kicking starters and 6th mean out of the league for HSers. and lets assume players are going to reach a certain level of talent at a certain age regardless of when they are drafted. i.e. the HSer after 4 years is in the same spot as if he just came out of college. i would say not making them wait through college gets the talented ones here faster and we still end up with the same talent at the end of that 4 years, which is good. some people don't seem to see it that way and think if they went to college they would be better but i don't see it that way. and yes, apparently if you collectively bargain something like this you can do it (at least i think that's how they decided the nfl case), but that doesn't mean you should. guys can play at 18, let them. and there are only going to be more guys with bodies capable of playing in the nba at 18 in the future.
But wouldn't you still be getting paid millions of guaranteed dollars if you were 18 and drafted, if you are getting paid the full rookie scale? If this system was in place, Korleone Young and Leon Smith would be making millions instead of in limbo. This would increase the number of nba contracts a team owns if this goes through(15 players plus the young players). ----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/s...tml?ex=1113537600&en=24eb60abccc0aa74&ei=5070 ""I'm all for an age limit because although there are guys like LeBron and Dwight Howard, there are examples of guys where it would help them develop if they had a year or two," Hill said. "I played with Korleone Young, and he's not in the league now. I think of him more than LeBron." Young, the Detroit Pistons' second-round pick in 1998 and a high school all-American, lasted one season in the N.B.A. He bounced around in the minor leagues in the United States before trying Europe. Young was last known to play last summer for the Sichuan Pandas, a second-division team in China, according to the Web site Eurobasket.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.sportingnews.com/experts/sean-deveney/20050404a.html Age minimum will have maximum benefit Posted: April 8, 2005 Imagine this scenario: A kid -- say, an 18-year-old -- with springs-in-his-shoes athletic ability, a classic NBA frame, long arms and a lifelong dream of playing pro basketball has the attention of scouts. But he is raw. Can't shoot. Can't defend. Can't tell a pick from a roll. In the modern NBA, this kind of thing comes along about as often as a Tuesday. If you're a general manager on draft day, do you pick the kid? Maybe, if you can afford to wait and pay a player who might not pan out, if you can afford to use a roster spot on a guy who won't play a meaningful minute in his first two seasons. If you take him, you had better be very confident that your coaching staff will be willing to work with the kid in practice and drill him every day. You'd better be sure your coach won't hold a grudge against you for giving him an unmolded lump of clay who won't help win games for a few years. That's a tough pickle for a G.M., and it has become a problem for the NBA -- too many too-young players are taking up space in the league, dragging down fundamentals and wasting coaches' time. For years, the proposed way to alleviate that has been a 20-year-old age minimum. Make a rule that keeps the kids out, and, presto, the problem is solved. Multiple sources confirm that, barring a breakdown, the 20-year-old age minimum will be a reality in the next collective bargaining agreement, which ideally would be completed this summer. NBA union chief Billy Hunter originally came out firmly against the age minimum, but that was before he had a real sense of how the league's rank and file (i.e., the veterans) felt. "Most players," says one prominent agent, "are not going to be teenagers again." Thus, Hunter has relented. The age minimum is not likely to be quite as simple as it sounds. College basketball junkies who think the rule change will send the country's best young talent back to the NCAA ranks will be disappointed. The NBA is looking out for itself with the age minimum, trying to protect the quality of play in the league -- as it should. The new proposal won't keep kids from turning pro and collecting legitimate paychecks (rather than those shady payments from college boosters and assistant coaches). That's because the league wants to tie the age minimum to an expansion of its developmental league, the NBDL, which will include 10 teams (up from six) next season. Eventually, the league would like to have 15 NBDL teams, with two NBA teams splitting each minor league roster. The result probably would go like this: Players who want to enter the NBA from high school still can put in for the draft, but they will be required to go to the NBDL first. There they will collect their full rookie-scale salaries -- a wrinkle that has made the proposal palatable for Hunter. NBA teams that own the players' rights can let those players develop in the minor league and bring them up when they are ready. This is an exciting step. Fundamentals will improve as young players get better instruction and more game experience. But this is not going to send kids back to college. In fact, it could encourage more prep players to skip college. Go back to our 18-year-old star, for example. If you're a G.M. considering drafting the kid, you're more likely to do so knowing you can send him to the NBDL without weighing down your roster or coaching staff. You still get all of his positives and potential, with much less risk. And if more teams are willing to take chances on raw young players and pay them millions in the minors, then more of those raw young players will come to the NBA through the NBDL. The age minimum is not going to save the college game, nor will it take agents and sneaker companies out of high school basketball. It's simply going to make the NBA better. Get in while you can Assuming the league is successful in putting its age-minimum plan into effect, this could be the final draft in which high school players go directly to NBA rosters. That means the top prep players could enter this year's draft to dodge a required tour in the NBDL. Player Comment Gerald Green, SF, Gulf Shores Academy (Texas). Green is the only potential lottery pick coming out of high school this year. He's a 6-8 player with athleticism who can handle the ball, get to the rim and shoot. Monta Ellis, G, Lanier High (Miss.). At 6-3, he is too small to be a shooting guard but is a pure scorer with a nice outside shot. Louis Williams, G, South Gwinnett (Ga.). He seems intent on entering the draft. But like Ellis, Williams is too small (6-2) to play his natural position of shooting guard. Andray Blatche, F, South Kent Prep (N.J.). Good size (6-11) and a nice shooting touch have helped his stock, but he has no back-to-the basket game. C.J. Miles, SG, Skyline High (Texas). He needs to add weight and still is very raw. His defense and explosiveness are not yet
