[ESPN] MLB suspends spring training, delays Opening Day at least two weeks

That's a fair point, but it is a huge difference to have the revenue sharing be explicitly in the contract. They may not happily accept it, but they wouldn't have much of a legal leg to stand on.

Aside from CBA differences in the 2 leagues, there just seems to be so much more distrust and animosity between MLB players and owners. And even with the distrust, there's just a complete lack of willingness to work together. Some argue that trust needed, but NFL players and owners distrust each other (rightfully so bc owners have been caught trying to steal more revenue), but they still work because their CBA allows for verification of the football related revenue. MLB hopefully gets their S together one way or another.

 

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I hope there isn't a season. If there is, and we happen to win it, everyone will continue to disrespect us as having a second asterisk championship. And all this is karma from the media, Manfred, these hypocrite players and the **** Yankees and Dodgers fans for trashing us over this overblown "cheating", something not only every team does, but has been done since the beginning of time. **** them!

 

The baseball system mis-trust starts at the very initial stages and doesn't really stop... from draft slot manipulations to service time stalling to arbitration battles to eventual no-trade clause disputes/deferred money disputes.

There is largely a standing discord at every step of the way of a player's employment on an MLB team. Perhaps the only time of true harmony is, presuming player is an all-star, the very first large FA contract, or contract extension if player decides to re-up with team. And its these players that are largely the "voice" of the union and are keeping them unified in their stance.

Even with explicit language... all athletes typically will react similarly at the discussion of universal massive paycuts if its the first time its ever happening. Yes, not much legal recourse (other than not playing)... and NBA players have tended to favor short-term windfalls/payments vs. long-term stability in previous CBA/cap negotiations. NFL players do have the least power overall... given the large roster sizes, large turnover, short careers, and non-guaranteed contracts.

 

A decent step from owners towards players position. Though, owners are using sematics. First, it was 50% of revenues for 82 games. Now it is 75% of prorated salaries for 76 games. Sounds like a bigger step than it is. If player counter with 85% of their salary for 76 games, owners likely accept after some negotiating. 85% of prorated salaries would put players around 57% of baseball revenues...or the high end of what they get each year.

 

No draft pick compensation, if true, would make it all but necessary to ink Springer long term. He would help alleviate the lack of adequate OF depth in our system. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s holding a grudge because of how HOU manipulated his service time...but he does seem to like it here. Money will talk at the end of the day.

 

Agreed... its basically the same offer, but at least they're willing to pay for more games. I still think they should try and play as many games possible... owners recoup more tv money, players make more total pro-rated salary, and the more games there are the more they can gauge the safety of having fans come back in stages, with the hope that the playoffs can be well-attended.

Where did the draft pick compensation come from? Each little stipulation such as this merely serves as a sneak-preview for the eventual show-down next year.

 

Not a big Passan fan to say the lease, but good summary:

 

With teams not having to fork over a draft pick, it could open up more potential suitors for free agents.... that being said, the teams in position to sign big-name free agents outright aren't typically dissuaded from offering contracts simply due to the draft pick attached.

The Red Sox still likely the biggest challenger to go after Springer.... followed by the Dodgers depending on what they end up doing with Betts.

 

So reading these posts....Passan's numbers suggest baseball revenue is estimated at $2.46B for 82 games. Using his numbers, player salary would be $2.02 B for 82 games. This is lower by ~20% of the numbers I've seen elsewhere, but trust Passan's numbers more than most sources (i.e., his ability to present facts is good...though his opinions are often whack).

 

Agree. I could see SFG and ARL (can’t call them TEX) being top suitors as well. Really a ton of teams could use him...we’ll have our work cut out in trying to keep him long term. Fingers crossed.

 

Seeing it mentioned here and also in the latest Olney podcast, is there a good summary out there for non-seamheads about the multiple manipulations clubs do to underpay players longer?

 

ESPN has obtained a copy of MLB’s proposal today to the players. Here are the pertinent details:

- 76-game season
- $1,431,716,000 in potential compensation (75% of the full prorated salary of $1,909,436 over 76 games)
- Up to 8 playoff teams per league (at MLB’s discretion)
- No qualifying offer for 2020. Teams that lose free agents receive draft pick for players who sign multiyear deals at $35M+ or one-year deals at $17.8M+. Teams that sign those FA do not lose draft picks
- Spring training 2.0 lasts 21+ days
- Season starts ~July 10, ends Sept. 27

Salary breakdown to get to the $1.431 billion number:
- 50% of prorated salaries over 76 games: $954,718,000
- Payment to players if postseason happens: $393,000,000
- Bonus pool for postseason teams to split up: $50,000,000
- Forgiveness on $170M advance: $33,998,000

- Players deemed "high risk individuals" can opt out of the 2020 season and retain their salaries and service time. Players not deemed high risk would receive neither salary nor service.

Who are high-risk individuals? From MLB COVID-19 manual: "Some individuals may be more likely to suffer severe illness as a result of COVID-19 than others. ... Individuals who, by virtue of their age or medical history, are at a materially higher risk ... of complications."

 

Players drafted have slot values awarded for their draft spots typically pennies on the dollar what the draft spot is worth.
Players drafted aren't allowed to sign an MLB contract only a minor league one.
Teams keep players down in minors such that they come to majors when team can get more bang for their buck instead of when player in minors is better than player in the majors.
Teams manipulate call ups by having player miss a year or service time by days pushing free agency back a year.
Teams manipulate call-ups such that players miss Super 2 deadline such that they miss getting to arbitration salaries one year sooner.
Players when called up to majors are regulated for 6 years (really 7 based on above manipulations) of club controlled salaries (3 minimum salaries, 3 arbitration based on talent partially) before reaching free agency.
Teams are more willing to play a rookie on minimum salary versus signing a slightly better (or significantly better if team is rebuilding) mediocre free agent.

Though, MLBPA has prevented the owners the ability to do these things each CBA in exchange for protecting free agents that will sign for tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

https://theathletic.com/1861223/202...e-or-not-will-determine-shape-of-2020-season/

Major League Baseball is increasingly likely to be played in 2020, barring an uptick of COVID-19 cases that again forces the sport to shut down. The biggest remaining question is the length of the season and acrimony it might cause, and the outcomes will hinge in part on how the Players Association reacts to the league’s latest proposal.

The union, according to sources, plans to reject the league’s offer of a 76-game schedule in which the players would receive 75 percent of their prorated salaries for the regular season if the playoffs are completed and 50 percent if the postseason is canceled. Details of the offer were first reported Monday by ESPN.

The union now faces a choice. It can counter the league’s proposal, perhaps by continuing to ask for 100 percent of the prorated salaries but in a schedule shorter than its original request for 114 games. Or it can submit no counteroffer and wait to see if the league makes another proposal or proceeds with a plan to implement a schedule of 50-odd games. Commissioner Rob Manfred is empowered to set the number only if MLB agrees to pay the prorated salaries in full.

The league’s proposal Monday included a $989 million guarantee to players that was less than the $1.03 billion it offered in its initial 82-game proposal, prompting the union to consider it a worse offer and one agent to call it “a step backward.”

A league official, however, said the proposal moved “materially” in the players’ direction and indicated a willingness by MLB to further negotiate the terms. The upside for the players in the latest proposal is their potential postseason earnings increased in total dollars from $200 million to $443 million. But the players do not believe they should be required to assume a greater share of risk in the postseason.

Economics remains the principal area of dispute between the parties, but differences also remain on health and safety. The league, according to sources, wants players to sign an “acknowledgment of risk” waiver that would eliminate their ability to hold the league and clubs accountable if they do not create a safe work environment. The union, which does not want to forfeit the players’ rights to legal action if it believes negligence occurs, considers the potential inclusion of the waiver a “deal-breaker,” sources said.

Motivation for a negotiated settlement exists on both sides. Without an agreement, the league likely would lose the chance to stage the expanded 16-team postseason it sought as part of Monday’s proposal, and players would lose the chance to benefit from other elements of the offer. Those elements include the elimination of draft-pick compensation for free agents in the 2020-21 offseason, an idea intended to spur spending this winter, and a stipulation allowing the players to keep approximately $34 million of their initial $170 million advance (20 percent) rather than having it deducted from their salaries.

The league says it wants to play as many games as possible and considers the implementation of a schedule consisting of one-third the normal 162 games or less to be a last resort, knowing it would produce negative consequences.

Under such a scenario, star players with contracts extending beyond 2020 might prefer to sit out rather than risk contracting the virus for 23 to 35 percent of their pay (under the league’s proposal, only high-risk players would receive salary and service time if they opted out of the 2020 season). Even if such stars play, fans would be left to ponder the legitimacy of a shorter schedule, as opposed to one consisting of approximately half the number of usual games. The union likely would file a grievance seeking financial damages, saying the league did not make a good-faith effort to play as many games as possible, sources said.

As each day passes, the pressure to strike a deal only increases. MLB did not set a deadline for the union to respond to its latest offer, sources said, but a ramp-up lasting approximately one month, including a second spring training, will be necessary once the league decides to proceed with the season. The league proposed the season to start around July 10 and end on Sept. 27, but such a start date is possible only if the sides reach a resolution quickly.

Some on the players’ side suspect the league, in an effort to demonstrate good faith, might continue making incremental offers the union finds unacceptable, effectively “running out the clock” until it is seemingly left with no choice but to impose a schedule of 50-odd games. Bruce Meyer, the union’s lead negotiator, said Friday in a letter to MLB deputy commissioner Dan Halem that the league “has consistently dragged its feet on the resumption of the season.” The league, in turn, voices complaints about the union’s negotiating style, saying the MLBPA is inflexible and unrealistic.

The differences between the parties stem from their March agreement, which states the players were to receive prorated, per-game salaries in an abbreviated season. The agreement also includes language that allows the league to seek a renegotiation on economics if the season at least starts without fans in the stands. The union initially said the negotiation regarding salaries was over, but it later acknowledged the league’s right to revisit the matter while maintaining its desire for players to receive their full prorated amounts unless the league can provide greater validation for its claims of financial distress.

On May 26, the league proposed a tiered salary structure for an 82-game season that would have required the highest-paid players to take the greatest reduction and the lowest-paid players the smallest. The cut from the prorated numbers would have amounted to more than 30 percent in total dollars, and the union responded five days later by asking for a 114-game season at full prorated salaries. Neither party viewed the other’s proposal as realistic.

The March agreement allows for the extension of the regular season, but the league viewed 114 games as impractical, saying its health experts are warning of a second wave of COVID-19 cases in November. Many universities are preparing to end their fall semesters at Thanksgiving for that reason, and the union’s proposal called for the World Series to start around that time.

The league is adamant about attempting to complete play in October and requiring players to take an additional reduction in pay if the regular season includes a maximum number of games. The players and others involved in the games are taking the medical risk, but the union is adamant about extending the season longer and the league paying full prorated salaries.

The ability of the parties to compromise — or not — will determine the shape of the 2020 season.

 

MLB is going to kick itself if they cancel the season while all of us are binging on playoff basketball, playoff hockey, NFL games, college football and soccer in the span of 1-2 months. It already has very little national interest and this could be a big step back.

 

They need to hurry up. The idea of a 50ish game season is lame. One groin pull or lat strain and somebody is done for the year.

 

The MLBPA is making a proposal to MLB for a season of 89 games with a full prorated share of salary and expanded playoffs, sources familiar with the situation told ESPN. It would bring the sides closer to a potential deal and is 25 games under the last union offer.

89 game season proposed by players would start on July 10 and end on Oct. 11, per a source. Includes expanded postseason for 2020 AND 2021.

In new MLBPA proposal, players get a playoff pool determined by gate revenues as normal. But, if the postseason has no fans or limited access for fans, the playoff pool is $50 million.

 

At this point I am expecting baseball, eventually the season will be short enough for the owners liking.

The players aren't gonna miss out on hundreds of millions to make a point.

Still, another massive L for the sport. Should have been the first sport back with a starving audience all to itself.