The problem I have with most of the comments about TMAC play is the same can be said of Ron Artest. However, Ron gets a free pass because he has "heart" and "toughness", two very dubious qualities that many people on here seem to get boners over. At least TMAC has the ability to be an offensive playmaker. Ron's mental toughness is nowhere close to TMACs, as we have seen as Ron jacks terrible shots and dribbles way too often. More troubling, Ron allows players to get in his head which causes him to break down and most troubling Ron thinks he is one of the premier NBA players.
I am glad McGrady got away from his other personal trainer and is using Grover. According to Dr. Positano, a bad personal trainer can cause injuries to the shoulders, knees and back. That's all T-mac's problem areas right there. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-rock-positano/personal-trainers-the-goo_b_66926.html
Absolutely wrong. Serious injuries do not need to be career ending. According to your definition, you don't think Yao's broken foot was a serious injury. And yes, other players have come back from having microfracture surgery, but have any of those players taken more than 10 months to recover from arthroscopic surgery? Has any player ever taken that long? McGrady's game is heavily based on athleticism. Would you agree that as a player ages, his athleticism declines? If so, it shouldn't be hard to see the connection between McGrady's age and his athletic decline. First of all, there's plenty of reasons to believe he won't return to form next season. The Rockets' have a much better roster than the last time McGrady was healthy. As such, I don't think McGrady will be allowed to dominate the ball as much as he did in the past. And then there are the chemistry issues that he'll undoubtedly encounter. But back to him being worth "every penny of his contract". Did he earn every penny when he slacked after the arthroscopic surgery? What about when he chose to have microfracture surgery and ended the Rockets' hopes of trading him. The guaranteed contract is one of the worst things about the NBA. First of all, when arguing, its poor form to disregard the opposition's assertion without explaining why. "Don't care" isn't good enough. Secondly, have you ever heard Yao air the Rockets' dirty laundry? Even Kobe and Shaq will hug when the spotlight is on them. During that same interview, didn't he also say he was always on average teams? He went to the top physicians in the world with the most advanced technology. If they said nothing was wrong, then nothing was wrong. Nobody is going to publicly say that he didn't rehab properly...not anyone who wants to keep their job at least. What any logical person would do is look at the type of surgery, look at typical rehab timelines, and then compare it to McGrady's timeline. Also, due to the fact that doctors kept telling him he needed to strengthen his knee, it should be pretty easy to deduce that he slacked on the rehab. I know I've told you this before. Please don't tell me that you're one of those idiot posters who keep regurgitating the same assertions after they've been proven wrong. McGrady's made this team competitive in the same way Iverson has made his respective teams.
Good analogy wekko. both volume shooters. However, Iverson has accomplished more. Tracy has to work less for his fame than Iverson cause Tmac is taller and more athletic. Iverson has to milk his quickness and fearlessness to establish himself in the league.
I think McGrady gets way too much criticism on this board, but you have to admit he does put his foot in his mouth when it comes to talking about teammates and coaches. There was an interview I remember seeing after losing to the Jazz in the playoffs last year where McGrady got defensive and basically said "I wasn't the one who didn't get the rebound," but can't find it. But here's a Chron article from the Jazz playoffs that's in a similar vein. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5734895.html He's also said he's only played on "average teams" while talking of his playoff failures. It was the same article you mention where he said he would have had playoff success if he had played with Shaq or had been on the recent Celtics team. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/02/27/weekly.countdown/index.html Yes, it may be true and I'm sure McGrady isn't being malicious, but it's got to be more than irritating to his teammates to hear their captain talk this way. I mean, it's like if the Spurs didn't have Ginobili on their team, and Duncan publicly said that his average teammates keep him from winning a championship. Anyway, dead horse. Carry on.
Semantics...Tracy is supposedly getting a less intensive microfracture than others have gotten, whom have come back to be productive. Tracy shut it down and this surgery is supposed to be for the pain not to fix something wrong. The point is DD post as if McGrady will never be the same which is possible but not a given. This is an exageration, which was my original point. Yao has a minor stress fracture that didnt require surgery, Id say that is relatively minor compared to some of the others. Still dont see how this is relevent. People are different, otherwise I would be the SG for the Rockets. This is hilarious to me to be honest. You draw the connection between age/athleticism/decline but fail to see the connection between injury/declining play. You don't lose all of your athleticism in one summer, it is a slow and gradual process. Tracy will never be the scoring champion who has terrific elevation on his jumpshot and an explosive first step. But, as shown this year, on one knee he still put out some solid performances as a playmaker. He doesn't need to be a scorer, but he can still be a playmaker and get his teamates involved. He is an excellent passer, still commands a double team, great court vision, excellent (on court) decision maker, and if playing injury free can be an asset to our team. You're right, he might not. For a long time, we had two superstars and nothing else, then we had a great collection of role players and nothing else with the same results. Somewhere in the middle of this, people wanted to place blame and say one is better than the other, I on the other hand think combining the two is the best bet. McGrady is smart enough to find a way to effective on this team. Slacked, again, link me something credible about him slacking on surgery and not this BS about how he must of if he didnt heal fast enough. And again, I dont know what goes on behind closed doors so maybe he blocked the trade, maybe he didnt. Poor critical thinking is when you make your opinions and choices on what you think to be true, rather than what is true. Is there strife in the locker room? I don't know, only the players know and I base my decisions on what they say, not what people on this board speculate. No I havent, but I did see the apparent shock on Yaos face when asked. It's like he couldnt believe what people were making up. Yea thats ****ed up, he shouldnt of said that. This is just stupid, I am not gonna respond to this. Proven? LOL. Read up kiddo. http://www.logicalfallacies.info/ Just because DD keeps spouting that Tmac never rehabbed properly doesnt make it true. And I will keep making this point whenever people try to pass this opinion as fact. Maybe. But that isnt my point, my point was all those "facts" and "realities" DD layed down were exagerations. Once that happens, you start to develop a mob mentality and thats never a good thing.
Other athletes can recover from arthroscopic surgery after a few months. It took McGrady about 10 months before he called it quits and opted for surgery. Even if McGrady's microfracture is less intensive, its not nearly as routine as the arthroscopic surgery he had. Its very relevant. If you're going to reference other players as an example of successful returns from microfracture, then you're assuming McGrady will put in the same rehab as those guys. However, McGrady's history indicates that he is not dedicated to his rehab. Yes, it is a slow and gradual process....that started in 2006. He is already far removed from his prime. The problem was, although he was a competent playmaker, he was a terrible defender. Let's look at some of his better games this year. He scored 26 against the Celtics. In the same game, Allen torched him for 29 on 73% shooting. During the next game at Portland, he dropped 30 but let Roy have a wide open look to steal the game. Excellent passer & great court vision? yes. Commands a double team? not at all. Excellent decision maker? Are constant 20 foot jumpers good decisions? Once again, no one is going to publicly accuse him of slacking on rehab. Based on the facts at hand, he's either the slowest healer in the world or he slacked on rehab. In regards to the blocked trade, its obvious he did. There was talk of a trade with the Nets for Carter. You want to know when the talks subsided? February 17. That's when Les Alexander told the media that McGrady wouldn't be traded. Coincidentally, that's also the same day McGrady went to ESPN to inform the world of his decision to have season ending surgery. Wrong. Its impossible to know all the facts for every event that takes place. Critical thinking involves making a decision based on the evidence at hand. If you have flawed data, then you'll likely come to an incorrect decision. However, the logic behind the decision remains sound. Yes, lets totally ignore the fact that multiple physicians recommended against surgery. What do they know? They're only the most reputable people in their field.... Like I said before, if you look at the projected timelines, you'll see that McGrady grossly exceeded the norm. Not to mention he began the season out of shape and multiple doctors continued to state that surgery wasn't necessary. Since it's impossible to know the truth, the best we can do is look at the evidence and try to make an educated guess. I took the evidence, made my educated guess, and presented it to you. Your response was "that's not fact". You probably don't want to admit it, but you have to know that's a lame response. And "kiddo"? I'm pretty sure I'm older than you. I guarantee I'm smarter than you. If you insist on insulting me, I'll be more than happy to reciprocate. Based on your ramblings, it'd be easy. Sorry, but I come to my own conclusions....I don't let other people influence me.
Agreed not saying we should keep Tmac but Ron Artest is not someone I would hope the Rockets are planning to overpay. This guy better come cheap.
Ok, again, not revelent. My original point was that DaDa was exagerating about him being seriously injured. He might be seriously injured, but from the reports he is ahead of schedule which indicates it is not gonna be the end of him as an elite level player. Keep saying it, it just might come true! "His effort coming back from this and working through it has been extraordinary. He’s been busting his tail. The intensity he’s been displaying is fantastic. It’s very encouraging." - Morey http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/Tracy_McGradyrsquos_Road_to_-292943-34.html "He's part of the team, he's working hard," Morey said. "I met with him for more than couple hours in L.A. when he came out to be with the team. He seems to be in a good place, he's working hard." http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/05/20/rockets-have-mcgrady-and-artest-to-consider-this-offseason/ Maybe, again irelevent to my exageration argument. I agree he was a terrible defender...this year. But last year in the Jazz series his defense was adequete. I have no reason to believe that he can't get back to where he was in the playoffs last year. You are conveniently leaving out that McGrady was only playing because Battier was injured and he is normally the player who would guard Roy and Allen. Also leaving out that a healthy Yao, Rafer and Artest were complete no shows for that Boston game. Oh and this "McGrady landed awkwardly and grabbed his sore left knee as Rivers protested the call, claiming McGrady was trying to pass" - Playing while injured. Uh yes, Tracy is constantly doubled. McGrady is extremely underated when it comes to getting the ball to a guy who has a missmatch, a guy cutting to the basket, to Yao in a comfortable spot, a guy wide open, etc. And yes, when none of those are available he does have a tendency to take jumpers just like Artest did this season in his place. The difference was Ron was not as good at getting all those other things done. Thats a product of the teamates and offense, not McGrady. Or it was not done properly, or it was reinjured, or he came back to early, or a million other things happened. You keep going back to this ridiculous flow of logic. Um? Did you just counter your own statement by showing how less blocked the trade before Tracy went to Smith? Lets just re quote it for emphasis. "I don't think we're going to part ways with Tracy," Alexander said. "We acquired a great superstar and everybody wants us to trade the great superstar. You don't get superstars that often." Later Tuesday, ESPN.com's Stephen A. Smith reported that McGrady told him that he would need microfracture surgery on his left knee and will not play again this season. The seven-time All-Star had an MRI last Wednesday because the knee has not responded well to rehabilitation since he had arthroscopic surgery on it in May. Les blocked the trade, not McGrady. Yea, um, except no http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/adhom/general.html "A hasty generalization is one in which there is an insufficient number of instances on which to base the generalization. Consider the following examples: Jana has been to San Diego several times, and the sky was always blue and the temperature ideal. The weather must be perfect in San Diego all the time. Tina bought a used camera while she was up in Portland, and got a great deal. Portland must be a good place to buy used cameras. I read where there have been no reported cases of HIV infection in Liberty Lake. The people of Liberty Lake must be free of the HIV virus. In the first two examples, generalizations were made on the basis of little evidence--several days in San Diego, one camera purchased in Portland. These clearly provide an insufficient basis for the conclusions they are used to support, and are therefore examples of hasty generalizations. " Wekko: Some people who don't rehab properly from surgery have long recovery times. McGrady has a long recovery time, he must of not rehabbed properly. (fallacy) You sound just like one of my students, so I assumed you are young, sorry if you feel that is insulting, wasnt my intention. I am not even going to comment on the smarter comment, your arguments speak for themselves. I dont ever really remember seeing you post, so I can't comment on this, but I will keep an eye out from now on.
I selected that part because that was the wekko quote you used directly above what what you wrote. The guy already admitted it's an educated guess based on the timeline. You made some good points, but it's pointless to keep hammering him for a careless comment after he already clarified it was a guess. And Morey quotes on Tracy really don't count. He would say that regardless of whether McGrady is rehabbing hard or not. (btw I'm inclined to believe he is working hard NOW. It's his preseason work that I have my doubts over.)
Listen, my sole intention here is to approach the McGrady situation objectively and try and dispel some of the garbage that is being passed around as fact. He deserves criticism, but alot of it is unwarranted. I am not a Tmac apologist but its clear the witch hunt is on.
There is no witch hunt, people are just being realistic about what to expect from a guy over 30 coming back from microfracture surgery. The team has $23 million wrapped up in an injury prone player coming off of major surgery, which leaves them a couple of choices. 1. Hope that Tmac overcomes history and comes back better than ever and committed to running the team oriented offense (both unlikely). 2. Taking advantage of teams that are looking to rebuild and get rid of multiple year contracts by taking a hit this year. Clearly people who rely on hope are not going to get far in the real world, so realistically, the team should do number 2...and get some good complimentary players for him...guys that are healthy and fit in with the team we have now. You can not have another season where you are HOPING Tmac and Yao stay healthy....you can deal with one injury prone player, but not two. To me it is clear, Tmac has to go.... DD
Our only goal now is to win a title. If Yao can't stay healthy, and thus far, we have little reason to believe he will, what happens with TMac this year is totally irrelevant.
Yes, I would agree with that, but with Yao and the business he brings, I don't think it is realistic to think the team will trade him. So much of the Rockets value as a franchise is wrapped up in Yao, so he stays....Tmac.....not so much. DD
I am not against a trade, but trading T-mac for Corey maggette is just an awful idea. I'd rather "hope" that he "overcomes history" then trade him for a guy that isn't going to bring anything to the team we don't already have. it's clear to me you are once again wrong. Just like you said the Lakers have been exposed and the Nuggets were going to kick their butts....your logic here too is flawed. T-mac doesn't have to go. There's nothing to say that. It's unwritten. Don't peddle that non-sense anymore. Most fans, the team, the organization, and even the media, are taking a wait-and-see approach. Might be smart for you too as well.
IMO: Tmac will be traded, he has burned his bridge with the organization, they are just being professional in their language in the press. Morey will get something for that albatross of a contract. DD
