OK well regardless your ignorant if you think veterans looking for a ring wont want to go play with them
If so many vets were willing to play with Lebron for a discount, Lebron would have a cheap supporting cast instead of a bunch of overpaid veterans in Cleveland. Many NBA athletes live paycheck to paycheck. That's why a large percentage of them end up in bankruptcy after retirement. The Knicks have about $700k per player, after renouncing Sergio Rodriguez, JR Giddens and Bill Walker. I doubt any player that can make MLE level money $5-6 mil will sign for $700k. They will be getting NBDL scrubs.
Thats not really the same scenario... The bottom line is the NBA is a super star drivin league. You can't win without them. Only teams with multiple superstars can win championships. perfect example is the Cavs this year. I say no way Lebron resigns there cause he will not have a superstar running mate now or anytime soon. With the Knicks he can immediatley have Bosh. The only other decent scenario is going to the Bulls with Derrick Rose but Im not too sure that would be a good combination. If you have 2 superstars you can easily piece together a team with decent to good role players.
The veteran signings for cheap are more like Rasheed Wallace signing with the Celtics for the MLE than signing for the minimum. If they can sign with proven winners like the Lakers, Spurs, or Celtics for the MLE instead of $600k, they won't even think of NY.
Ron Artest , Antonio McDyess and Rasheed Wallace are veterans that signed with their teams to chase a ring. All of them ended up with a salary taking up the majority(or all) of the mid level exception. NY is a different situation. They aren't proven winners, and they can only offer $600-700k. Any vet chasing a ring will be follow in the foot steps of McDyess, Artest and Wallace and go to a proven championship winner.
Without any salary cap exceptions and with only the league minimum to offer anyone else, the Knicks will NOT be able to piece together an Eastern Conference Finals-worthy roster, which is what you are saying the Knicks will be with Lebron and Bosh. The new CBA will quite likely eliminate the MLE altogether, so the Knicks may NEVER be able to add an MLE free agent during the Lebron/Bosh Era. The Knicks may be able to add a couple of decent veterans who would be quality 9th or 10th men on a good roster, but those same guys will end up being 5th or 6th men on the Knicks. As BetterThanEver said, why wouldn't those same guys take the league minimum to play in Cleveland with Lebron, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, Varajao, Delonte West and a much better overall cast than the Knicks could put together? Would the Knicks make the playoffs with Lebron, Bosh and some also-rans? Yes (if Lebron and Bosh play at least 75 games each and the other guys have somewhat good years). Would the Knicks make the Eastern Conference Finals or NBA Finals with that roster (again, which is what you are saying)? No freakin' way.
I detest vagueness. Please identify the veterans from the list below that will play for the Knicks on a super low salary and can make a difference when they are on the floor. <hr> NBA Free Agents 2010 <b>Atlanta</b> Jason Collins Maurice Evans (P) Joe Johnson Randolph Morris Joe Smith <b>Boston</b> Ray Allen Tony Allen Marquis Daniels Michael Finley Paul Pierce (ETO) Nate Robinson Brian Scalabrine Shelden Williams <b>Charlotte</b> Tyson Chandler (ETO) Raymond Felton Stephen Graham Larry Hughes Nazr Mohammed (ETO) Theo Ratliff <b>Chicago</b> Joe Alexander Devin Brown Acie Law Brad Miller Ronald Murray Jannero Pargo Hakim Warrick <b>Cleveland</b> Zydrunas Ilgauskas LeBron James (P) Shaquille O'Neal Sebastian Telfair (P) <b>Dallas</b> J.J. Barea (T) Brendan Haywood Dirk Nowitzki (ETO) Tim Thomas <b>Denver</b> Malik Allen Anthony Carter Joey Graham Kenyon Martin (ETO) Johan Petro <b>Detroit</b> UNRESTRICTED Kwame Brown Ben Wallace Chris Wilcox (P) <b>Golden State</b> Devean George Vladimir Radmanovic (ETO) <b>Houston</b> Jared Jeffries (ETO) Yao Ming (ETO) <b>Indiana</b> Luther Head Earl Watson <b>Clippers</b> Steve Blake Rasual Butler Drew Gooden Steve Novak Travis Outlaw Brian Skinner Craig Smith <b>Lakers</b> Shannon Brown (P) Derek Fisher D.J. Mbenga Josh Powell <b>Memphis</b> Steven Hunter Jamaal Tinsley Marcus Williams <b>Miami</b> Rafer Alston Carlos Arroyo Yakhouba Diawara Udonis Haslem Jamaal Magloire Jermaine O'Neal Shavlik Randolph Quentin Richardson Dwyane Wade (P) Dorell Wright <b>Milwaukee</b> Rafer Alston Carlos Arroyo Yakhouba Diawara Udonis Haslem Jamaal Magloire Jermaine O'Neal Shavlik Randolph Quentin Richardson Dwyane Wade (P) Dorell Wright <b>Minnesota</b> Brian Cardinal Darko Milicic Sasha Pavlovic Oleksiy Pecherov Damien Wilkins <b>New Jersey</b> Tony Battie Trenton Hassell Jarvis Hayes Kris Humphries (P) Chris Quinn Bobby Simmons <b>New Orleans</b> Ike Diogu Sean Marks Darius Songaila (ETO) Peja Stojakovic (ETO) <b>New York</b> Jonathan Bender Earl Barron Brian Cardinal Eddy Curry (P) Chris Duhon J.R. Giddens Al Harrington Eddie House David Lee Tracy McGrady <b>Oklahoma City</b> Kevin Ollie Etan Thomas <b>Orlando</b> Matt Barnes (P) Adonal Foyle Anthony Johnson Jason Williams <b>Philadelphia</b> Rodney Carney Francisco Elson Willie Green (ETO) Allen Iverson Jason Kapono (P) <b>Phoenix</b> Louis Amundson Jarron Collins Channing Frye (P) Grant Hill (P) Amare Stoudemire (ETO) <b>Portland</b> Travis Diener Juwan Howard Joel Przybilla (ETO) <b>Sacramento</b> Sean May Ime Udoka <b>San Antonio</b> Keith Bogans Matt Bonner Richard Jefferson (ETO) Ian Mahinmi Roger Mason <b>Toronto</b> Chris Bosh (P) Amir Johnson Rasho Nesterovic Patrick O'Bryant Antoine Wright <b>Utah</b> Carlos Boozer Kyle Korver <b>Washington</b> Earl Boykins Javaris Crittenton Josh Howard (T) Shaun Livingston Mike Miller Fabricio Oberto Quinton Ross (P) James Singleton <hr> With a pending change in the labor contract next year, taking an offered MLE agreement this Summer might be preferable than taking a lowball salary with the Knicks this Summer. Hoping to get <i>Lucky</i> in the future with a better contract to recoup what was <i>sacrificed</i> this Summer in pursuit of a <i>Ring</i> is a huge gamble.
Ok well we will revisit this in July and see who is right. My money is on Lebron signing with the Knicks
Which is possible. No one's disputing that Lebron could very well be a Knick, though if he is, it would show that he's more interested in the fame of being of a bigshot instead of winning and would massively lower his credibility to me, especially someone who has defended Lebron for his various antics throughout the year. What is absolutely impossible, period, is that Lebron can get a max free agent like Bosh and still get a not complete POS supporting cast, which frankly means a team that will be a second round team at best, and frankly much worse if the Magic whom also got two max free agents in Grant Hill and McGrady proved anything. It is literally impossible for that to happen unless you get other stars or role players willing to play for the vet's min, and if that was possible, you would have seen that happen with Cleveland or LA or the other winning teams. Older roleplayers such as Sheed may take discounts such as the MLE (which may not actually be that much of a discount when you count their declining skill), but they won't take the vet's min. What I have seen paraded by some delusional NY fans is that they are also hoping that they could use Eddy Curry's EC to get someone over the summer, such as Okafor, whom is overpaid for a long time. Such a thing is ultimately delusional on their part, especially when one considers just how worthless Curry is as a player, there is no reason for any team to bite on that thing until the February trade deadline. So bottom line? New York's screwed.
The Orlando situation is a terrible example because Grant hill was never healthy... And they signed to Small forwards...
We weren't talking about Lebron and Bosh not signing. We were talking about your point that Lebron and Bosh would be in the Finals for the next 6 years at the worst? What happened to the Finals or higher(NBA Finals or ring) for 2010-11 through 2016-17?
I frankly don't think that you could rely on say, Lebron and Bosh being completely healthy if it was those two and a bunch of scrubs. The fact is for that team to be remotely successful, those two would have to play insane minutes just about every single night, and that takes its toll over a grueling regular season. It's also the reason I am completely convinced that the chances of New York landing Wade is 0, as I think/hope he would realize that he would probably replicate Hill if he signed with New York with his injury history and those heavy minutes.
This. TMAC3, please don't make a ludicrous statement, and then argue with those who are simply stating that your statement is ludicrous. You quickly changed the argument to something with which no one is necessarily disagreeing with you. Other than the statement about Lebron, Bosh and a bunch of minimum players making the Finals for several consecutive years, I don't think too many people here are saying that your thoughts on where Lebron or Bosh might end up are that far off from reality. Just save us the hyperbole. Thanks.
Im sticking with my statement that the Knicks with Lebron and Bosh would make the Eastern Conference Finals every season for atleast the next 6 years. Galinari is a good player. He'd be there 3rd best player and right now he's alot better than the Cavs 3rd best player right now. Am i wrong?
Yes. Yes, you are wrong. You are very, very wrong. First of all, the Cavs' top three players are all All-Stars: Lebron, Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison. Gallinari is nowhere near as good as any of those players. Perhaps one day Gallo can be good enough to scratch an All-Star team, but that day is not for a long while. And even then, I seriously doubt he'll ever be the player that Jamison is. Maybe better than Mo, but definitely not anytime soon. If you are going to stick by this statement, then I will just have to disagree with you. You are entitled to your opinion. But so am I. And I think you are unbelievably wrong.
Didn't you also have at least one other statement about Veterans playing for the Knicks? Let me look............ <i>BetterThanEver</i> has already cleared up the part about the Exceptions. But you came back twice and repeated your thoughts behind the second sentence from above. I provided the iist of potential 2010 Free agents for you to identify the players that would play for lowball salary and still prove effective on the court. At this point in time, you have yet to identify the specific players that you have been referring to. Finally.......... Does that mean that you are now abandoning the other statements (listed below) that you made in this thread?
Yes and no. Gallinari is a good player, and I was extremely high on him at the beginning of the year, though he has not performed up to expectations. The problem is that he's very similar to Bosh, a jump-shooting big man whom you cannot rely to play well in the post. In that sense, he would be a problem. The biggest problem with the Knicks, even with two max free agents, is that their players from SG-PF aren't that awful. However, they are horrifically bad both at PG as well as at the center position. Bosh cannot play center, and he has said repeatedly he has no interest in doing so. And there are no free agents at the PG or center position this year that are any good aside from some crazy scenario where Yao becomes a Knick, but whatever. Combine that with a moron as a coach, and the Knicks are not going to be a championship team regardless of scenario. About the only way they could get any additional value would be to sign and trade Curry's contract, but since Curry is so worthless as a player, there is no team that would do that during the summer when they can simply wait until February and see how their team turns out.
I would rather have: (A) Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, Anderson Varajao, Delonte West, Anthony Parker, Jamario Moon, Daniel Gibson and J.J. Hickson than (B) Chris Bosh, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, fat Eddy Curry, Toney Douglas and a bunch of D-League also-rans. Also, you are once again proposing something (that Gallinari is better than at least one of Cleveland's top 3) and then when you realize you are wrong, you change the argument to something else (that Bosh and Gallo are better than Mo and Jamison). When the entire point of everyone's argument is that the Knicks wouldn't have enough depth to be in the Finals every year, retorting with the argument that the Knicks may actually have a third good player (who, by the way, plays the same position as Bosh) does not answer those questioning about players 4 through 9. Look, I said you were entitled to your opinion. I'm obviously not going to change your opinion, and you have provided the rest of us with little evidence to make us want to change our opinions, so let's just agree to disagree here, okay? Thanks a bunch.
Do you honestly believe LeBron, Bosh, Gallinari, Giddens, Toney Douglas, and Eddy Curry will knock the Celtics(Garnett, Pierce, Rondo, Perkins, Rasheed, veteran chasing ring signed for the MLE) or the Magic(Howard, Carter, Lewis, Nelson, Gortat, Pietrus, Bass, MLE veteran)? The Knicks would have have no defense, especially with Fratello coaching them. Garnett and Howard would have a field day with Gallinari, Bosh, and Curry guarding them. Toney Douglas would be abused like a ragdoll by Rondo. JR Giddens would be abused guarding Carter.
