I find it funny that you would conclude that he had any meaningful reason to those teams success or has any effect on why we are playing bad again this season. If he was so irreplaceable why did LA immediately win again with older, slower Ron Artest in his spot? Lakers knew it, we learned it real quick, he isn't worth the money we gave him. This year I think its pretty safe to say CP3 playing more than only half the season has been the biggest reason for their improved record. As for us the same is true for this year as it was last. No chance without yao. We weren't that great last year and we aren't that great this year. Ariza makes no difference. Ariza's defense is above average, not great by any means and his offense is so below average its not even funny. Lee shows more promise to be a more complete player plus we saved money in the short and long term and got a trade exception if I remember correctly. I continue to be just amazed at why people can't realize that the biggest reason we are playing so poorly this season(and last) is Yao is not playing. Even if we should or could have foreseen him getting hurt for another full season, there weren't any players available that could have had the potential impact of yao, so why commit the money a year earlier than you may need to a guy you may not need? This is not a difficult concept. With Dirk the supporting cast in Dallas looks amazing, take him off for an entire season and you think kidd and co are going anywhere? Look at cleveland this year, the shining example of what can happen to a franchise minus its best player. Teams aren't meant to be good without their great players. The way teams are structured your highest paid player is almost always the most important and hardest to replace player.
I have rebutted every Ariza vs Lee trade and now you people who oppose are just resorting to asking me to stop posting like you always do. Its rather inapporpriate to try and use the rules of clutchfans to try and lure a bait towards my removal of posts over a subject you cant contribute more to besides to start resorting to this tactic some of you always fall back when you start to lose some agruments. Like a childish act of giving up and complaining because i made a great point you cant deal with. Happens alot here especially when some of you start this against the rookies who join and have opposing viess some people dont like. I am no rookie and know my basketball.
I look at those mysterious statistics that tell me that Ariza is shooting as badly as Brooks, taking as many shots as Brooks, and is still doing his stupid steal attempts that would be a complete disaster on a team without good shotblocking as last year proved, and at a significantly higher price than Lee. Take a look at his shooting percentages this year where he's playing with CHRIS FREAKING PAUL. He's getting wide open 3s and still can't hit a damn.
Besides people keep responding to me like jordnnnn here who at least has a few points to make. Which makes me totally obligated to repond back as many times as I am responded to if I have a point to make. Now on to jordnnn points. Yeah i agree on most accounts. Ariza is not a great player. My thing is Ariza didnt get good value for what he was worth in a trade. Lee isnt starting. Will never play close to 30 minutes a game. Does not contribute to winning. Have close stats or impact as a Trevor Ariza but I realize and actually acknowledge some of your points as totally true about him. My point is Trevor for Lee was a bad trade value wise and team wise so far with what came of it. Good Trevor or not for the Rockets his trade value was bad Morey got out of him.
I can't tell if English wasn't your first language or you're just dumb. The above post just sounds like someone trying to use a bunch of words they don't quite understand well enough. I haven't been involved in any of your Ariza v. Lee debates. I didn't ask you to post less because you made a good point -- I have no idea what points you made in this argument. I asked you to chill out based on you posting the exact same picture, without any meaningful commentary, twice on the same page of a thread. "That's the reason I can keep posting this." Wrong. There is no reason you should continually post a picture of a taco. I don't even know what the heck you're trying to say by posting it. If you have a good argumentative point, stick to it instead of pictures without commentary.
Ariza's FG% is at an all-time career low. His bricking rate and FG% is even worse this year than last year without the Rockets asking him to be in a scoring. Excellent spot up shooter? He is even worse than Budinger, who you use as an example of brick chunker. How is the one with the lowest FG%, a great spot up shooter, while the player with the higher % of made shots, is a brick chunker? They are both pretty bad. Lee is still better than Ariza.
......what? Lee can be a starter. He was a starter on a team that went to the Finals and contributed just as much to his team as Trevor did to his. He won't be a focal option ever. Neither will Trevor, as last year proved really, really well. Sure he won't be starting ahead of Martin, but under those guidelines, if we traded for any SG worse than Martin, it would have been a bad trade for the Rockets. And unlike Trevor, Lee seems to have no problem playing off the bench whereas I got the distinct impression Trevor would have thrown a fit if Battier had gone ahead of him. And how does Lee contribute to winning and Trevor does not?
i was making a point wit the picture and even told you Ina few sentences about it. I cant take serious anyone making a argument that they can possibly see as valid or serious if they think Lee for Ariza is a good trade. I told you that. Again dont worry about my spelling skills when answering three to four people at any moment while checking up on ESPN and getting up to feed my kids or talk to my wife on the phone every once and a while. I have a life and some other things to do. With a very fast computer and very fast fingers that get tangled while answering everyone, and my wife, and kids. In a few minutes its off to eat in the real world. Play time in Clutchfans is for hobby or passing interest. I have been a loyal fan to the Rockets for decades. I dont know just a tiny bit of what the Rockets problems are. I have always been around the team and observed alot of basketball and winning teams. This is nothing new to me nor is typing or multitasking.
He doesnt play 30 minutes a night and isnt vital to his team as Trevor was for the past two teams he started for. Championship team player before that. Thats one way. Stats arent close as people think. Impact is close to zero for Courtney Lee on some nights. I watched every game of Arizas except for Hornets on most nights and Lee definitely for Rockets. Its a pretty easy assessment for me to make. Obviously harder for fans because they have rooting interest in team but not so hard for me who mostly tells it like things are for the good of our own team.
In Morey's mind big picture means only playoffs to him. In our mind big picture means deep post season runs. I think we as fans are sick of just making the playoffs. Apparently, making the playoffs is Morey's big picture.
If the Lakers would have lost in the NBA finals, Trevor Ariza would not be a "championship team player." If the Magic would have won, Courtney Lee would have been a "championship team player." Both players played important roles on teams that made it to the NBA finals. Giving Ariza credit for this while ignoring Lee's team making it there as well isn't a good argument. Trevor Ariza played almost ~20 more minutes a night for the Rockets than Courtney Lee does, so obviously his stats are going to be skewed in his favor. You try to spin that by saying that Ariza was obviously better than Lee because of the minutes distribution -- and it's a fair point. Ariza was starting over Battier and if this year has taught us anything it's that Adelman is trying to win games, not make sure everyone is happy. I was extremely unhappy about the Ariza-Lee trade when it happened; as the season progressed, I came to terms with it. Was it a great deal for us? No. Was it a bad deal? No. Ariza certainly isn't as bad as several disgruntled fans have made him out to be. It's funny to see people believe he's on a bad contract as that's no where close to being true. But I also think the Lee-Ariza debate is closer than either side wants to believe.
Ok. Thats close enough for me to respect your thoughts on that matter. I do feel It was a bad trade to me because we dont have Trevor Ariza to use right now in any trade. Ariza is worth more to me than Courtney Lee is. He is probably a starter still. Ariza could get you what you want in a trade right now without waisting Scola or Martin. Lee can get us Asik maybe?? Not even Asik really.. Courtney Lee is thought of as valuable to other GMs basically as much as I am posting about his value right now. Him as a player himself isnt bad. He doesnt play enough nor start or mattered enough for that trade to be good for Morey. Ariza is playing and is a valuable peice of that Hornets roster right now. So thats how I perceived value. The winning is also there to back it up and minutes. Its just the value is bad in my view. Morey hasnt done anything yet and nothing is close, seems imminent or even positive mentioning. Our big players we are hoping for is Nene a backup star to Carmelo on the Nuggets who are not that close to getting. Then there is very little else Morey seems to be involved in right now of note worthy. Just an observation I hope is wrong in a few days.
Just put this guy on ignore like I did to Brian_Chapman long ago. This thread has been hijacked by a self important fan posting almost indecipherable arguments and totally insipid pictures of a taco. I didn't come here for that and so...ignore. Trust me, you'll never regret it.
Nobody said that. What was said is Morey is making bad deals and has nothing on the table so far this year. Lets not twist this conversation around to begging for Ariza. It is Morey isnt doing his job lately.
Self important? Like you trying to look down on someone else with your nose held high. Whatever Mr. High and mighty internet king.
If its so indeciferable Einstein why is everyone responding with total clarity to my responses? Knowing exactly what i am saying and then trying to make their case? You ever thought of that before you posted?
meh, lee and ariza are about the same IMO, but lee comes in on less money, and a more team oriented attitude IMO. Based on MONEY we go with Lee... That's neither here nor there, as both players are NOT the type of players the Rockets need in the starting line up...I would love to keep Lee as a 2nd team player though.
