Raef Lafrentz is way better than Kelvin Cato. Lafrentz is soft but he can shoot and he can be aggressive and do some stuff... I remember during the playoffs....Lafrentz started out very aggressive and made a lot of baskets by attacking the goal....and Jeff Van Gundy was complimenting him and saying this is what he needed to do and do it more often...
I think Dallas's system is hard for a center. On offense, before you can cross half-court, someone has already taken a shot. On defense, noone plays defense, of course the center would get in foul trouble. Raef's minutes were down last year because of foul trouble, surely his other numbers have to suffer too. He did shoot 52%, how does Cuban expect him to get 15 pts with 7.4 FGA and 1 FTA/ game? U can't get 7, 8 rebs/ gm either if u don't have the minutes or if the shots are taken before u r underneath!
Reaf is better at exactly one think than Cato. Shooting from the perimeter. And even that is inconsistent at best. Reaf had what? 2 good games in the play-offs. The Mavs played in 19 play-off games. How many games was Reaf a total no show? Here is a run down of the Portland play-off series just to give an idea of how pathetic he can be and usually is. Portland Series: Game 1: 36 minutes 7 pts 7 rebounds 2 blocks .333 F/G% Game 2: 20 minutes 6 pts 3 rebounds 0 blocks .500 F/G% Game 3: 44 minutes 20 pts 4 rebounds 1 block .636 F/G% Game 4: 21 minutes 4 pts 4 rebounds 2 blocks .286 F/G% Game 5: 33 minutes 3 pts 4 rebounds 1 block .333 F/G% Game 6: 25 minutes 4 pts 2 rebounds 1 block .286 F.G% Game 7: 15 minutes 4 pts 4 rebounds 2 blocks .400 F/G% Averages: 27 minutes 7 points (figure is bloated because of the one 20 point game) 4.5 rebounds 1.28 blocks 18 of 42 F/Gs .428 F/G% 4.28 fouls For 10 million a year I bet Cuban expected a hell of a lot more than that. Reaf is not a quality player or even a quality back up as far as I'm conserned. We don't want a player that makes 10 million a year producing like that. MoT only avg's about 7 million a year look how bad Les gets ripped for that contract and now we want the take on this one? No Way!
What Nellie asked Reaf to do was what his specialty is suppose to be. Shoot the perimeter shot and draw the big boys out of the paint. Reaf was so inconsistent with his outside shot that Nellie just could not rely on him. Reaf would come out one night and teas you by hitting 50 or 60 percent of his shots but then he would dissapear in the big games and only hit 20 percent of his shots. And it does not matter how good someone is if they can not stay out of foul trouble then they are no good. Reaf can not stay out of foul trouble.
ragingFire, BTW is it asking to much to get a defensive rebound occasionally? I don't think so. Also I don't think it is asking too much when Cuban wants Reaf to play smarter and not foul as much. A total waste of 10 million a year.
Out performed LaFrenz? Ha! It's hard for Bradley to do that when his butt is nailed to the bench as it was during virtually all of this year's playoffs. He's so pathetic, Nelson is forced to play LaFrenz out of position at the 5 which is also a disaster. It was Mark Cuban who resigned him to a 6 year $36 million contract which is roughly what Cato is being paid. Now if Cato gave the Rockets as little as Bradley gives the Mavs, folks here would be in an uproar and ready to string him up - and they'd bring their own string too.
Rafe gets schooled by opposing centers because he's over-matched when playing with his back to the basket. His post game is very poor (compared to Shawn Bradley whose post game is nonexistent) - he's yet another big guy who plays better facing the basket. Playing him out of position at the 5 only exposes him all the more. Mark Cuban is to blame for giving hm that outrageous contract. There's simply no way he's a $10 million per year player.
Actually its 6 years at 35 million according to Patricia's site. Like you say that is roughly what Cato makes. When I say Bradley out performed LaFrentz I based that on the regular season. At almost 6 million a year Bradley gave the Mavs the following: 21 minutes a game 6.7 points a game 5.9 rebounds a game 2.1 blocks a game .536 field goal percentage At almost 10 million a season Reaf gave the Mavs the following: 23.3 minutes a game 9.3 points a game 4.8 rebounds a game 1.3 blocks a game .518 F/G% I would definitely say that Shawn out performed Reaf based on those numbers. Both players are over paid but Shawns pay is more in line with what a back up center should be making. He actually had good stats for a back up center and when he was starting the first couple of months of the season he was around 9 points and 8 rebounds a game. The problem with Shawn is that he can never perform against decent compatition. Cato is better than both Shawn and Reaf IMO and is as good of a back up center as there is in the league right now. Reaf on the other hand is the most over paid free loading player in the NBA.
Cato's is 42 mil over 6 years, Lafrenz's is 70 mil over 7. The salaries are only about .5 mil apart until 07 but then you have 2 (or 3?) brutal years with Lafrenz assuming he exercises his option (all but certain). Lafrenz is 2 years younger though. 02-03 salaries: Raef LaFrentz .............. $7,270,000 Kelvin Cato ................ $6,696,000 full salaries: Kelvin Cato ........... 9/23/97,10/28/99 3+6 $3.4 mill+ 42 mill '06 Raef LaFrentz ......... 7/30/02 7 $69,973,750 p-opt '07
DS, look at your own figures. They are not only .5 million apart they are over 3 million apart per year average. LaFrentz offers almost no post presence while Cato has turned into a very good post presence. Damn, the only player to out rebound Cato per 48 minutes was Ben Wallace I beleive. And while Cato didn't start many games he certainly provided a hell of a lot more than LaFrentz did when he started. Here is Cato's average stats as a starter last season. 28 minutes 6.6 points 11 rebounds 2.2 blocks 1.2 steals Now those are not all-star numbers but damn man if you are looking for a strong post presence those numbers are solid. Reaf can't dream of numbers like those.
Everyone complains about the lack of presence in the post to help Yao out. Now you want to go get Raef who camps out on the 3 like EG? Come on! Cato is a legit post presence, has started living up to his contract, and gives Yao a good 10-15 minutes of breathing time. Raef and EG off the bench? Or Raef and MoT? The first tandem would be too busy jackin up 3s to be of any effect, and the second tandem would suck at rebounding...
No, they were about .5 million apart last year (02-03) and will be around .5 apart next year (that is why you could trade them 1-1 with the 15% allowance) and until the end of Cato's contract. In other words there is inconsequential differences in the salaries impact on the cap until 06--then there is a big difference for a 2-3 years where Laffrenz gets huge bucks. I would be torn with the deal honestly--even though Raef is a better fit IMO that 25 or so million extra due Lafrenz on years 07, 08 and possibly 09 where Cato's stops and Lafrenz keeps going is hard to swallow.
DS, The fact is that over the course of the contract Reaf will average around 3 million a year more than Cato. No mater how you spin it, it still comes out to about 3 million a year more on average. Cato was many times more productive than Reaf last year. There is no doubt that there are teams that would be willing to take Cato. Reaf on the other hand lost a lot of value last year. If he has another year like last year he will be almost impossible to move. Suppose we did end up with Reaf and he continues to play as he did last year. Do you really think that anyone is going to be willing to take him at the most expensive portion of his contract. Reaf will be impossible to trade and we will be stuck with him. His contract would be the worse than Malony, Cato, Moochie or MoT.
We need a backup center/ postplayer that can play defense and rebound, so why is it now that we'd give up cato for lafrentz. Why do we need a offensive threat at center, we have YAO MING
Oh, sorry crash, wasn't trying to bash you. I was siding with you; I meant to direct it at Scar. Sorry
U need to read the whole discussion. We have a backup center that plays def and reb.: Cato. But he will play 10-15 mins for 6.7 mils. We also have a PF that plays 24 mins for 7.1 mils. Is it not better to get Raef to play 30-35 mins for < 10 mils? Raef is a whole lot better than u guys give him credit for. He is not the strongest, fastest but he can play and he is smart. He won't dominate the 4 nor the 5 all by himself but in a team system, he will do very well at both ends. He shoots 52% and they are not alley-oops dunks either. On defense, don't u remember how he stop Yao?
Right now, I'd rather have Cato, and I think Dallas would rather have Cato as well. We both need more toughness on the inside, and that's what Cato brings. Obviously, if you're drafting players, you'd pick Lafrentz. But given the situation and the teams, right now both teams would prefer Cato.
But average is not what is most relevant to the case: from here on out the salary difference is something like this. .5 mil 03-04 .5 mil 04-05 .5 mil 05-06 11 mil 06-07 (Cato off the books now) 12 mil 07-08 14 mil 08-09 You must look at the year by year basis as other contracts on your team expire at different times. I do have to say as much as I like what this trade would do for us the next 3 years that penalty starting 06-07 and beyond is probably too much for me to swallow. At least in Cato's contract were are about half way through that bad contract, in Raef's case it just started--that makes a big difference and one you miss focusing ont he "average" yearly salary.
