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[ESPN Daily Dime] Rockets better without McGrady

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by northeastfan, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    At least when I speak of the past, I speak of greatness not first round exits and people making excuses for a player whom they think is just as good as Kobe.

    Hint, he was never as good as Kobe.
     
  2. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    check lebron's stats and his stats. they're eerily VERY similar in every way. hell, tracy is even beating him in 3pt% and ft%.

    and his efficiency is not bad. he was top 10 in efficiency last yr to end the first round. and his PER was even higher.

    it's nice to be objective here DD.

    if you said tracy could do more in the playoffs, then i'd say sure. tracy is expected to put up 30+ppg every time. but not that argument.
     
  3. opticon

    opticon Member

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    I think what dd is saying is that tmac's style of play makes it all about him in the playoffs and his team mates take a secondary role.

    When its crunch team d up and are able slow mc grady down and the team cumbles with him.

    Tmac is great playoff player but the style that the team plays when he is only floor can be stopped by a good defensive team. (case in points the utah jazz or the avery johnson coached mavs)
     
  4. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    His health has got zero to do with his refusal to pass the ball or play the offense. How is his knee responsible for his habit of catching the ball and dribbling, dribbling, dribbling away?

    As for T-Mac, the Rockets are better off without him. You mean if he comes "back" from announcing a phantom injury to the media without informing the team first? Because that's the only way he'd come back--if the microfracture stuff was bogus and he was just playing the drama queen, again.
     
  5. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    The Rockets started playing better basketball, offensively, before McGrady sat out. It didn't start with his injury, though the timing of it created that illusion. Recall that the Rockets had lost two very bad games due to poor play in the 4th quarter just before McGrady returned. After he rejoins the team, we go on a win streak, which becomes a precursor to our 22-game win streak.
     
  6. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    The issue is this year, and this year the coach is Rick Adelman and not JvG. T-Mac refuses to play the offense. Look at how much crisper the ball movement is since he's left. That in a nutshell is why T-Mac would damage the team if he came back and tried to play.
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Cabbage come on, that is disingenious, and by that leap of logic I could say the same about you and your critique of Yao Ming.

    The point is that I do not want Tmac back EVER, on this team. Is it emotional, of course it is.....but it is also logic and results driven.

    Clearly this year he is an anchor, that part we agree on, whether it is in his head or his knee, he is not helping.

    The point of contention I am making about his entire CAREER here or anywhere, is that his STYLE of play, where he dominates the ball and makes all the decisions is conducive to losing in the playoffs, and teams that have multiple options for creating offense are more successful.

    And that when presented with those options, Tmac has fought against them, and because of that, I don't want a HEALTHY Tmac either, because of his inability to recognize his own limitations and take it "ALL ON HIM".....he is doomed to fail.

    Kobe had this issue too, and he is by far and away a better player than TMac, but once Kobe started letting others make decisions his team got a lot better....

    Now clearly people can make the argument that Kobe's play improved as his team improved and his trust level went up.

    I agree....so, what did Tmac do when his team went up in skill level? He whined about not having enough touches...he has not grown up and matured...that is why I don't want him anymore....ever.

    He played well last year with the same knee issues, this year, he has not.....

    DD
     
  8. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    The main reason? Seriously? What would you have proposed? Some backscreens to set up Jon Barry? Maybe some picknrolls to get a gimpy Bobby Sura free? Or would you have tried to force feed Luther Head and Rafer Alston to avoid that 'only 3 players to score in a playoff game' record? Maybe he should have switched off of Dirk and guarded Stackhouse in the post so the latter wouldn't torch our guards, then switching back to Dirk on the kickout to give Ryan Bowen a breather...? JVG also really dropped the ball not putting him on Carlos Boozer in Game 7. He probably should have shut down Mehmet Okur as well. Do you think this motion offense would have looked the same with Luther Head and Juwan Howard masquerading as Luis Scola/Carl Landry and Aaron Brooks?

    But hey, it's all Tracy's fault. Those Rockets teams were stacked and Yao Ming was a complete rock in the playoffs. If only he had changed his style of play and stopped "ball stopping." We coulda got Luther Head cooking from long distance.
     
  9. the_hustler

    the_hustler Member

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    I really hope you are not saying that based on last year's playoffs..

    because the role players we had last year were

    1. Bobby jackson
    2. Rafer alston (for 2-3 games)
    3. Deke
    4. Battier
    5. Landry/Scola (rookies)
    and other scrubs..

    so if T-MAc does take the shots .. who else could have?

    ah yeah. he should have rotated the bal rit? we would have def made it out of the 1st round then..

    o then people would have come up with statements like.. "that guy is paid 20 million to shoot the ball.". yada yada yada..
     
  10. EssTooKayTD

    EssTooKayTD Member

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    If you want to limit discussion to this season alone, then yes. According to those stats, we have a better winning percentage without Tracy. If the discussion is a blanket, the Rockets are better with/without McGrady, what is the percentage for all games since McGrady has been a Rocket?
     
  11. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    If I remember correctly the last game the Rockets dropped before the streak was to Utah, and that was because Yao was out with injury.

    Doesn't anybody find it suspicious that the same thing happened two seasons in a row? T-Mac sits, the team gels and plays the system, good things happen--after T-Mac sits.
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Yep, even if healthy...which is my tertiary, or secondary point.

    DD
     
  13. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    Who cares? You want to know why the stats are so skewed this year? Because McGrady refuses to play the offense. Adelman is the coach now, not JvG. The issue is this year and who fits the offense. McGrady doesn't. Arguing that he fit in JvG's coaching schemes is completely pointless.
     
  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    See this is why we are not going to agree, because I think players play better when they are involved in the offense all game long.

    I think if Tmac passes the ball and let's others play their games too, the team might have been better off.

    I understand what you are saying but 0-7 is the scoreboard, and 4 times the teams he has been the focus of have blown home court advantage.

    That is no coincidence.

    DD
     
  15. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    Another thing: the prima donna goes to the media and blabs about how he needs microfracture and that his season is over. The Rockets find out from ESPN and T-Mac's web site.

    Then he turns around, says he doesn't and that he wants back on the team. That's a freaking joke.
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    That is the emotional side of things.

    Addition by subtraction...use his contract to upgrade the team in the offseason.

    DD
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    That's not a question I can answer, because what you're describing ("refusal to pass the ball or play the offense") is a total exaggeration. McGrady's role on the team is to be the primary decision maker. When he's not playing well, we can question the decision to put him in that role. But that decision, ultimately, lies with the coaches and the Rockets staff.
     
  18. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    When has T-Mac been both healthy and had a talented team and subsequently "fought against" the gameplan?

    Hell, I can't ever remember this issue of him being a ballhog ever coming up prior to this year, when coincidentally...he has sucked.
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Right, so Adelman comes in, and DECIDES that it is no longer his role, and what does Tmac do?

    Whine about it.....and refuse to play Adelman's way.

    He then sits out with his knee and the team starts to win, he comes back and joins in on a historic winning streak.....

    Then this year, the team is better talent wise, he comes in and complains again about not having the ball enough...and the team clearly plays better without him.

    Doesn't that send up a red flag that maybe he is more of a problem than people think?

    DD
     
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    What?

    It has come up his entire career...I believe it is one of the primary reasons he was traded from Orlando.

    JVG put him in a position here in Houston to be the main guy, but also got him to pass the ball....BUT, he was still making all the decisions.

    This bit about him "Fighting against" the game plan has been an ongoing struggle since Adelman took over.

    DD
     

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