[ESPN] Bush turned pro after assurance of No. 1 pick

I didn't bring him up. Eddie George was an upright runner and he had a pretty great career. Someone said if AP was coming out they would want him over Bush and I said a point could be made for that but we're talking about two different positions.

You do realize Vince runs more upright then Peterson and is nowhere near as elusive

 

Kiper has just as much credibility as a lot of the other people who have been named as Young supporters. Let's not start analyzing scouts and analysts now.


Young is a better fit for Houston right now because he's home grown and his upside is higher then Leinart. If I was picking, I would choose Young as well. That being said, you can't say for sure Young is the better of the two. You can say he was this year but nobody can predict who will be a better pro. Leinart's accomplishments and talent seem to have just been completely discarded amongst all the Bush and Young hype. There's a chance that after we take Bush (that's who I think we're picking so I'll stick with it) No takes Leinart over Young. Does that make him a better prospect then? The answer is no, but everyone is entitled to an opinion and some people don't want to accept that.

Look, we have fans saying they won't ever root for the Texans again if they don't draft Young. Good riddance to those fans (and I say that even if we were to pick Young because you're not a Texan fan but rather a Young fan).

 

I think the question on Leinart is a valid one. While I'm sure there is more than a few around here that mainly want Young because of the UT connection, I think there are valid reasons why logical thinking people would like to have Young but are not interested in Leinart.

Mostly, it is because Carr and Leinart have similar skill sets. Carr is decently athletic, but doesn't really run well in the sense that he is a running QB. When he is on the move, he can be effective but he is at his most effective when he is in the pocket and has time to make his reads. Carr, when he has time, is pretty accurate and has a strong arm. Now his progression reading and defensive reading leave something to be desired, but I don't remember that being a knock on him out of college, so I think there is every bit of reason to imagine that Leinart won't be that much better than Carr on this Texans team.

Young, on the other hand, brings an entirely different dimension to that QB position that we haven't seen before as Texans fans. He can destroy teams with his legs. If the pocket breaks down, instead of running towards the sideline, potentially making ill-advised passes all the way across the field or just running out of bounds behind the scrimmage line rather than throwing it away, you will see Vince break free, break tackles potentially, and make plays without ever letting go of the ball.

I think that is a valid viewpoint, whether you agree with it or not, and not necessarily biased from UT affiliations. Personally, I would be perfectly happy with either Bush or VY, but I lean towards Young for the reasons I gave above. I think he can be a gamebreaker, and one that touches the ball every offensive play, at that. I would hate to pass up on that.

 

I'm not arguing that Young has the potential to be a great player and was a great college player. However, read your post again and i think you may be over doing it bro "ankles of steel" , lol, dude he's not superman.

 

I don't think people give Carr enough credit for his athleticism. Since we both agree he has the skills to be a good to great QB I'm not ready to give up on him. I'd rather give him some weapons and an ol and see what he can do. Can you imagine splitting Bush and Johnson out wide. Who do you double? The answer is one of them will be wide open.

I agree with everything else here except i favor Bush over Young. I won't hate the Texans like some have said if we pick Young, I'll hope he's as great as so many think he is. I just personally think Bush is the much safer and better pick for our team.

 

You sure about that?

 

I agree with all of this. With the right offensive coordinator, Bush could do some amazing things. The only concern I have for him is the between the tackles stuff. I don't worry about durability like some or on whether or not he gets enough touches. But if he really is limited to breaking off runs to the outside, I don't think he will be an elite back. But the guy packs more of a wallop than people realize. I think he has a unfounded rep as not being a strong RB because he is so fast and elusive, but I imagine he will do fine taking hits.

 

It's an expression, calm down. Guys continually in college tried to grab his legs to bring him down and he either slid away, or stayed upright to still have a chance to make a play downfield. He did it quite frequently in the 2005 Rose Bowl vs Michigan, and other games. He has an incredibly strong lower body. That is one of the things that makes him so elusive.

 

Agreed. I've said all along that I'm not really worried about his size or durability, plenty of backs his size have made it in this league.

But from day one, I've been worried about his ability (or willingness) to run between the tackles. The Rose Bowl game was a pretty good example of his running style, he almost exclusively cuts it outside on every single run. This is a good move because Bush is usually the fastest person on the field, but on the Texas D showed that by cutting off the sidelines, you are taking away his biggest asset. How many times did Reggie run out of bounds or get tackled for no gain or loss near the sideline?

Like I said, Bush did the smart thing by outrunning the defenders to the sideline, but this luxury won't be there in the NFL where you MUST run between the tackles and where LBs and some DEs can beat you to the sideline no problem.

 

Could Vince Young go No. 1?By Mel Kiper Jr.
Special to ESPN Insider

Young is flying high right now. He has more momentum than any prospect I can remember in a long time. He has more momentum right now than Reggie Bush.

Right now it is a three-horse race to see who is going to be the first pick in the draft between Young, Leinart and Bush. Nothing is clear cut. The Texans have a huge roster bonus they owe David Carr on March 1. They could let Carr move on or trade him and draft Young. There are a lot of things the Texans are going to determine about how the early portion of the draft goes.

....Remember, he can't go to an all-star game because juniors can't play in them. Young doesn't have to work out at the combine. He can show up for the medical and interviews, but doesn't have to throw the ball. He can wait until an individual workout and throw. You may only see one day of Vince Young workouts between now and April 29. He did enough on the field in the Rose Bowl to say, "You saw me, now make the decision as to whether I am good enough."

Right now Vince Young is flying as high as high as any prospect I can remember at this stage of the process, outside of maybe John Elway.

What are the negatives about Vince Young?
He has an unorthodox delivery. You don't know if he can drop back with a five- or seven-step drop, plant his foot and throw the ball because Young doesn't have to do that at Texas. He has all day to throw and when he is pressured, he can slide side to side. With Leinart we know about his drop-back passing skills, but we're not sure if Young can be precise, accurate and make the right reads and decisions.

With that said, he has a quick release and stronger arm than Leinart. He's the next Michael Vick running with the football. His decision-making improved greatly this year and I thought he made only one questionable throw in the Rose Bowl.

Any questions that were out there about Young have been put on the back burner because he was so spectacular against USC. He was calm, cool and poised.

Assuming he turns pro, where was Vince Young in the draft process before the Rose Bowl and where is he now?
Before the game, Young would have been anywhere from third to seventh and now he is possibly No. 1. If Young comes out, he will now be one of the top three picks, more likely No. 2 and maybe the first pick in the draft.



Bush, Leinart projected in top twoBy Mel Kiper Jr.
Special to ESPN Insider


Here's my first-round projection for the 2006 NFL draft. I put this list together by taking a look at the general area where each player should go, then placing the player on a team where he filled one of that particular team's top three needs.

In this projection, there are 17 underclassmen in the first round, with Reggie Bush and Vince Young leading the way as the first and third picks of the draft. This is my first projection, but it won't be my last of this season. I will submit another first-round projection after the Senior Bowl, followed by one after the NFL Combine.



Mel Kiper is pretty clear he doesn't know where VY will go yet. Could be #1, 2 or 3. Just educated guesses at this point, have to wait for the individual evaluations.

Since VY was the best player on the field and plays the most important position, like I said I think when it is all said and done his workouts (arm)/tests (Wonderlic, other) have to be very unimpressive not for him to be #1. IMO the onus is on Bush to prove he is such a sure thing it is OK to potentially pass up a franchise QB.

 

I think Kubiak is that guy. He's gotten the most out of Plummer (who's a good athlete like Carr but not as skilled) and has been around the best running team for years. LT isn't super in between the tackles, Barry wasn't super in between the tackles either. The thing about them is that they are going to have a lot of those 2 yd carries and carries for no gain. Then all of a sudden after 8 carries for 20 yards then bust an 60-80 yard run. They are homerun hitters. Portis and Tiki Barber are two of the best backs statiscally in the NFL right now. Both had the exact same questions as Bush coming into the league. Portis gained muscles and now can get in between the tackles. Barber and guys like Warrick Dunn have had long careers by picking their spots and breaking big runs. I think Bush will be an elite back. I won't call him Barry Sanders but I can certainly see a prime Marshall Faulk or even an LT and that's perfectly fine with me.

 

You think Kiper actually does stuff? I know for a fact that Kiper has a team of monkeys (i.e. not scouts) who does his research for him. When I did my college football research for work, I used to print his rankings out... and then use them as toilet paper. I trust Ourlads, Great Blue North, and The Huddle Report a hell of a lot more than I do Kiper. Just FYI.

One thing I'll say: Some of you are saying that you want Vince Young NOT because he's from UT, but because he's genuinely a great NFL prospect. Well, you're fooling nobody but yourselves. You want him because he DID go to UT AND happens to be a great prospect. Don't BS us. But you know what? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We love the hometown guys. They're easier to rally around; they're easier to cheer on. And that's a huge plus for taking VY. In fact, it might just be the deciding factor as well.

 

That being said he still gained 80 yds on 13 carries and had that huge td in which he broke it to the outside. All these guys are going to have to adjust to the speed of the NFL. It's just the way it is. Even if he never develops into a good in between the tackles runner that's what short yardage backs are for. They're everywhere nowadays.

 

All these guys were workhorse backs who did run a lot more between the tackles in college with a lot less blocking than Reggie Bush got.

 

No that's just not true, Texan fans want the best player who happens to be a hometown hero = VY

Which analysts said that? Specifically. Names. Thanks.

 

Because most of us think that Bush is better than Leinart this is why everyone was happy with Carr/ Bush before VY shocked the world. Personally I think Leinhart and Carr are a wash and I would under any circumstances want Bush over Leinhart.

 

Ya, that TD really showed what he can if able to get to the sidelines, it was amazing. But the other 12 carries shows what happens when you cut that off, you have a 12 carry for 54 yard back.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Bush, he is an amazing player. But I think it just shows that Bush can be stopped, and in my opinion, quite easily with a good game plan. I think it's a little easier to stop a player if you know what he wants to do everytime he runs the ball.

The Horns were able to shut down Bush for the most part, you can see this because (except for the TD) Bush never beat the defense to the sideline. On the other hand, Carroll had a month to prepare for VY and the defense still had no idea how to stop him.

I believe Carroll quoted, "We knew what the problem was, but we couldn't stop him."

 

Yep, and when USC needed to convert a 4th down to win the game, Bush was not even on the field.

Vince...well.....he was on the field for every offensive play.

DD

 

Well I respectively disagree.

What makes Vick electric and so popular, and to a certain extent overrated, is that he is like a wr or kick returner with a cannon for an arm.

Now it's obvious Young will have the ability to be a good scrambling threat in the nfl, but he still wont be as good as Vick in that regard. I just don't think he'll be running over and through people anywhere near as much at the next level, but with good coaching, he wont need to.

I really do think Steve Young, Elway, McNabb, and McNair are good comparisons for him. Or perhaps CPep with more speed.

But imo, if you're leaning to vy, it isn't because he's a better vick, it's because you think he's the next elway. The thing that VY has on his side is that he has gotten better seemingly every time he steps onto the field. Match that up with his physical skills, leadership, and good personality, and you have a guy that's hard not to root for.

 

That is true. Young is not the clear cut best player. I personally think he's second best, some think he is the best, I'm sure some even have Leinart as the top guy on their board. It's your opinion that Young is the best player and if you are going to argue that ut's not an opinion then there's no point in us even discussing it any further.

I heard it probably twice on ESPN and once during a Texans broadcast. I'm sorry that while I was watching i didn't have a pen and paper to write down exactly what analyst made the comment.